Help me understand....

Comparing Reef Breeders and Kessils

A reefbreeder 48" Photon advertises 215W. The Kessil A360 is 90W.
The reefbreeder costs $500. The Kessil costs $340.

The Kessil also requires a control, mounts and cables. With 4 Kessil's that $200 of other stuff.

If I compare 4 Kessil, that $1360 for the lights and $200 in extras for a total of $1560.... and 360W of light.

If I compare that to the reefkeepers and I bought two of them, that's $1000 for 430W.

Now, I know Watts isn't the best light comparison... but several people seem to be big supporters of Reefbreeders... and several folks seem to like Kessils.... but Kessil's seem to be 50% more expensive for less power.....

The Kessil's integrate nicely with the APEX... I guess that's something. Why are the Kessil's so much more expensive???? Is it worth it???

 

I definitely wouldn't compare watts. Typically PAR is the most accepted measure but there is even debate there and manufactures generally don't publish PAR values.

As for why Kessils demand higher price I'd probably sum it up as the total package of what they offer. Apex integration is one; tighter LED matrix is another (which gives the "shimmer" you hear some people talk about; third they're a bigger name so more people/shops use them so it is more of an established brand.

Caveat to all of this is that I have 0 experience with Reefbreeders but do use Kessils.

 

Wattage per LED helps a lot as well. It sounds like the Kessils you are looking at would have a smaller footprint? If that is so you may be getting stronger light under each one. There are a ton of differences which can make a difference as well. Linking both fixtures in question may help.

 

Are you only considering these 2?

My evergrow style lights from amazon are dull spectrum, 2 channel dimmable,
and only about $100 shipped.- currently using 3 of them over my 180 DT.
I put our clubs PAR meter to them- they put Radions to shame.
Coral looks/grows great.

 

I can not offer much insight into the world of LED lighting but I do believe you get what you pay for. Im not saying having a company with a brand name doesnt inflate the price but the kessil is pretty reasonably priced when you compare it to a radion.

I know Todd will have some objections here but I just do not trust all the cheap chinease knockoffs. Look at the cheap MH knockoffs years ago that caused house fires and the fixtures were not even rated as safe so insurances wouldnt cover the damage. These companies often put out an inferior product and when they develop a bad reputation they simply rename the same product and market themselves as new.

Even if you dont take that into consideration, here is a good article about lighting.

http://aquariumopinions.com/2013/12...evive-evergrow-led-lights-for-reef-aquariums/

As Todd states he loves the color and his corals are growing under these fixtures, they are capable of that. Just like the article though he measures with a PAR meter. Watts, Par, etc are very small pieces to the lighting spectrum we need to provide for corals and although 1 unit may look superior or equal to another based on these measurements they are really comparing apples to oranges. Also it mentions to difference in warrenties which is something to consider. A 3 year warrenty from a well known company to stand behind it means a lot more than a 1 year warrenty from a company over in China that may or may not be here in a couple years.

Read this link on Kessil

http://kessil.com/about/about.php

You can see they are a quality company that make there own LEDs with very extensive research and experimentation in a lab. They are not even an aquatic fixture company but a division of Dicon and specialized in lighting with LEDs with horiticulture primarily and THEN used their expertise to develop a fixture for the average hobbyest to use. Now try to research evergrow or any of these other ebay fixture and see what you can find about the companies.

In conclusion, yes you can go with the evergrow or whatever other fixture and you can sustain a reef with no problems. I am by no means a millionaire and do not have excess money to throw around. I try to find fish for $50 and less and corals even cheaper. I look for the best values when in comes to equipment and do not believe you need to buy the most expensive thing you can find. I do however buy quality equipment that has been around and reviewed for many years. You do not need a $600 skimmer but you do need to dish out 200-300 to find one worth buying anything less is almost useless. Same thing with return pumps, heaters, lighting, etc. If equipment fails either 1 of 2 things happen. If its something like a heater, a return pump, powerheads, doser, etc you risk killing the entire tank overnight if you are away from the tank while it happens. The other option with things like skimmers and lights is they go down, you take them offline, and then you order a new replacement or the better more expensive product you debated about to begin with. Even with a warrenty you cant wait to send something back, have it fixed, and then shipped back to you.

I am not sure how long Todd has used these lights Im sure he will chime in again but I believe for a year or less. In order to fully endorse a product in terms of quality and ability to maintain the life of our corals I believe you need to have been using the product for a few years to give a very accurate representation of it. That is just my opinion though so take it for what its worth. When it coems to equipment you can not skimp. Think of the hundred if not thousands you spend on livestock. Is trying to save a few hundred bucks worth jeaprodizing you livestock? Even if it does not, is the inferior product breaking in 2 years instead of 4 or 5 years and needing replaced that much sooner saving you any cash in the long run?

 

Guys this post got outdated really quickly. Looks like NASAGeek bought two AI Hydra 26s already per another thread.

 

IMO, if you go into a chinese knockoff; know what you're getting into. You are buying a disposable product AND it will grow coral.
You pay that lower price for a reason. Disposable razors are much cheaper than a "mach 17 blade ball curve vibrating with LED face illuminating razor", but you can still shave your face, etc. This is OBVIOUSLY a blanket comparison. It can easily be argued that the first civics were throwaway cars, but then I passed one on my way to work this morning, looked like crap, but it's getting dude where he needs to go.

I revert back to know what you're getting into. Take your time and really look at a product and not just the numbers if you are concerned with quality/longevity.

 

And after all that typing by PghSteeler!!

 

Since I was mentioned a bit, I thought I'd reply.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, and I certaily agree with my local friends 'Zestys' post also.
For the price I paid- they are basically exspendable.
I've heard they actually do stand by their warranty- I think mine is 2 yrs. Haven't had to try it.

As far as how long?
My original pair of 2 color, blue/white only, no dimmers, 120 degree lenses: still work fine.
One has been back in the box for over a year-
One is working great on my frag area in my sump- STILL growing corals
~ 3 years usage- was $95 shipped.

My current Full spectrum, dimmable, 90degree lenses have been up a little over a year without issue thus far.
These were ~ $115 shipped IIRC.

I know people have had problems with these 'chinese' LED's,
I've also seen other 'brand' name lights have issues too.
Like I said, I agree with what you posted.

And, I'm happy for the OP and his AI's

 

Thanks for chiming in Todd, I really did not have a lcue how long you had your fixtures and was hoping you would offer that information up. Figured a little poke was all I needed

I didnt realize you have had them for so long and I am happy you have had such success with them. I mean no offense what so ever in my post and am glad you did not take it that way. I am not an equipment snob and am even thinking of getting some jabeo wb-25 pumps for the 90gal instead of $500 wp40s!