Clam problems - pale splotches

Discussion in 'Clams' started by greysoul, Oct 8, 2011.

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  1. greysoul

    greysoul Stylophora

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    So I've had this T. Maxima for a bit over a year now, maybe 14 months, and it seems to be doing fine until very recently.

    Over the last week or so it's developed ... splotches... they're a very pale green. you could call them white (in contrast to the mantle) but they don't look white to me, and they're not visually the same as in another recent thread (see: http://www.3reef.com/forums/clams/white-spot-clams-mantel-121725.html) but I'm concerned all the same.

    Basic tank params are in line for a reef....
    Ca 450-480
    ºDKH 7.5 - 8
    pH 8.02-8.1
    ºF 78-80
    All nitrogen compounds are below normal detectable limits for general hobbyist water test kits (I use API)

    Lighting is 2x 150W 15,000ºK AquaMaxx HQI about 10" above water surface. The clam is on a shell half on the bottom of the tank... 58gal AGA. Last replaced 4/18/11.

    About a month ago I lost power on my AC unit and the tank spiked to 88ºF for about 12 hours. Everything got mad at me, but only lost one coral (moseleya sp.). I tested and ºDKH came back at about 2, double and triple checked, and it was still very low. Nothing else was out of whack. Raised it back up over the course of a few days to 8, and it's held steady since.

    I noticed the spots about a day after feeding Alagen's "Phyco Pure Reef Blend" phytoplankton. I bought it as a hold over for my normal feeding of DT's (about once a month on average) since the LFS can't seem to get a hold of DTs right now... When I fed this time my clam really seemed to notice. Usually I let the DTs fall down on it from a baster for a few minutes and it doesn't react in any obvious way. With the Phyco Pure it instantly closed as soon as the phyto touched it's mantle.


    Anyways, my initial concern is that the Phyco Pure has had some kind of reaction. Also, I'm generally concerned that the Phyco Pure is coincidental to a more general decline in my clams health.

    If anyone can help me on this I'd really appreciate it. I'm reading up on clams again, and not really finding any examples of this kind of discoloration. Lots of general bleaching info, but nothing that visually identifies with what I am seeing.

    Basically I guess my question is: Can any ID this phenomenon? Is it bleaching or something else?


    picture: You can see the splotches on the lower right side of the mantle on 2 sections, and on the upper right side on one section.
     

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  3. Blooper

    Blooper Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Your clam looks amazing and I'm entirely jealous.

    I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point. The check list I've used for clams when I'm not sure what's going on is

    Is the mantle fully extended?
    Is it gaping?
    Is it light responsive?

    If those three things are good the clam is probably not going through anything too serious. A change in color is always perturbing, however, it could just be a natural occurance, perhaps the clam is resetting its bacteria load in that small section, it doesn't seem as though it's a light overload related bleaching.

    A common response to a chemical imbalance in the water is a release of gametes. You'll know when this happens because your tank will be a horrible milky white and you'll be fighting to do massive water changes. Even immature clams can prematurely release gametes as a last ditch "breed or die" kind of thing when water chemistry is shocking them into doing it.

    As far as the food, there really shouldn't be any visible signed that the clam is feeding, it sounds like you should just feed the dts and skip feedings when you don't have it. The clam is siphoning in nutrients all the time without showing much external sign of it's actions.

    All that being said, you've kept a beautiful and sometime difficult clam for over a year, If I were you I would go with my gut feelings on this one, because you've been watching this particular animal for longer than some people have had their hands in the water.
     
  4. Blooper

    Blooper Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Oh, I forgot...the back boobs in your photo...that's pretty much awful.
     
  5. greysoul

    greysoul Stylophora

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    Thanks, I was very leery of adding a clam to a new tank (it was right at the 1 year mark when I added it). It has always seemed good and healthy, but I've heard many MANY reports that clams can take 6+ months to die, so I'm never fully convinced that it's not in a long term slow death.... probably in another couple years I'll feel better.

    Also, I've noticed there isn't really any strong sign of new growth. The upper edge of the shells has only the thinnest little sliver of "white" that still has a decent amount of green algae tint to it. In over a year in my tank it's gained about .5" from end to end, but seems to have bulked up more....

    I know it's a slow wait and see game tho.

    Thanks!
     
  6. proreefer

    proreefer Feather Star

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    the only thing i see other than a beauitful clam is the zoas, i would move the clam or them and not let them get to close the poly toxin in the zoas are the strongest poison known to man, i don't trust them getting to close to my coral.
     
  7. greysoul

    greysoul Stylophora

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    Actually, that's somewhat of a myth perpetuated among marine aquarium forums/books/magazines/etc. In the worlds oceans maitotoxin, is much more potent/active than palytoxin. Also, toxic zoanthids aren't the norm, but they do exist in the aquarium hobbyist world, and it's best to not take chances anyways. It would take several to a few dozen micrograms of palytoxin to bring a 200 pound person down. Growing up in Hawaii both played a role in what fish were safe to eat. Ciguatera was common in the reef fish, and I knew a handful of people who got it. It's also why it's never advisable to eat fish from an aquarium.

    In the entire world botulinum toxin is the current candidate for most toxic substance on Earth, with just 100 nanograms or so to kill the same 200 lb person.

    1 gram = 1,000,000 micrograms = 1,000,000,000 nanograms.



    Anyways... pet peeves of mine aside I know the Zoa's are close, but they have never seemed to compete, nor will they grow on the clams shell. I've often wondered why...I figure the clam either excretes something that prevent complex organisms from attaching (coralline and microalgae seem to grow on it) or the daily movement of the clam just discourages the zoas from moving into the shell. Either way, they seem to exist in harmony for now, but I've been keeping an eye on the zoas, they do tend to reach plague proportions in my tank from time to time...

    For now, I will keep an eye on the clam and make sure nothing gets worse, and if it does you all will be the first to hear about it :)

    Thanks again

    -Doug
     
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  9. proreefer

    proreefer Feather Star

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    Zoantharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    pet pee? myth?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  10. greysoul

    greysoul Stylophora

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    The myth is that Palytoxin is "the most" toxic compound/substance known.

    It is toxic, highly toxic, and there's no harm in knowing that in a single colony there can be enough of it to kill a small town, but there are dozens if not hundreds more substances that are more toxic, including botulinum toxin A, maitotoxin, conotoxins, saxitoxin, and tetrodotoxin ... what's interesting is how many of those are based on marine animals... But palytoxin, while strong, isn't on the same scale... nanograms of any of the above will kill a person, it takes hundreds to thousands of times more palytoxin to do the same thing.


    I think it's fair to say "Palytoxin is a very powerful toxin" but it's wrong and possibly dangerous to say "Palytoxin is the strongest/most potent toxin" because it's not true, and it could affect treatments if someone went to the hospital and incorrect information was given that delayed or confused treatment.

    Anyways, tangent aside... this is a clam thread. I may work up the nerve to post in a palytoxin thread if I stumble across one any time soon :p

    FWIW, if you want a "most toxic" my money is on botulinum toxin, aka Botox.
     
  11. proreefer

    proreefer Feather Star

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    yea the older i get the more i leave out important words, i've been doing it alot lately, i was trying to give you a reason for the clams discoloration, not meaning to debate toxins, but to clear up or to say it a little better, i must try because, i don't want someone that has read our post to think zoas are not dangerous and cannot make them sick or even kill, to be clearer then, Palytoxin is one of the most powerful
    Organic Toxins in the world. it is a natural toxin living within the tissue of there host. one gram can kill 125 200lb men or maybe a clam or two?

    While Botulinum toxin is a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, and is considered the most powerful neurotoxin ever discovered.

    I hope this is better put than before and someone learned a little more than before.[​IMG]