80G sump/refugium design

Discussion in 'Refugium' started by Infantry1327, Sep 12, 2009.

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  1. Infantry1327

    Infantry1327 Fire Shrimp

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    So hear is what I am thinking about for the new 150G reef I am building. The sump and Refugium will be made out of a 55G glass tank and a 25G class tank. So hear is what I am thinking. Pretty much everything is drawn to size except the pumps. I also just noticed I will haft to raise the pre filter pad and carbon pad so they arnt under water. What do you guys think? Am I going to have any problems?
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    P.S. There will also be a auto top off system and a calcium reactor. Put the calcium reactor will probably be next to the sump or above the sump
     
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  3. skurious

    skurious Sailfin Tang

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    It looks good to me. I just have one question: Does the water from your display go into the fuge only or both the fuge and the sump?
     
  4. Infantry1327

    Infantry1327 Fire Shrimp

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    There is a 1" bulkhead leading to the sump and the refugium. Then the refugium will pump back into the sump. But I may just pump the refugium directly into the display for a bit more flow.
     
  5. Infantry1327

    Infantry1327 Fire Shrimp

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  6. skurious

    skurious Sailfin Tang

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    ya after i posted that i looked at the diagram again and saw the holes, i think either way will work fine and it will be awesome when it is finished.
     
  7. ReefSparky

    ReefSparky Super Moderator

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    One potential problem I see is access to the carbon pads and bioballs. In the spirit of keeping things simple--mechanical filtration IMO is best utilized where the tank water first enters the sump/refugium. Filter socks are one way to accomplish this. When they get dirty, pull it off, and wash it in the washing machine with no soap. Pads are convenient, but are short lived, and you'll find yourself spending a great deal of money on carbon pads, when a reactor is a more practical way to utilize carbon. I don't see the means by which you'll be able to access the carbon pads and bio balls for maintenance.

    Simplicity, I have learned; seems always the best route. You might consider hanging a phos reactor over the side of the sump/fuge, and running your phosphate media and your carbon in that. IMO, when it comes time to change, it will be less of a hassle, and you'll be more apt to perform these tasks regularly--as you'll find that tedium often results in neglect.

    IME, ideally a sump/refugium should contain 3 compartments. One is where the water enters, and can pass thru a filter sock at this point. Another section houses the skimmer, and another section is the refugium. If your return pump will be submersible, this is commonly where your ATO float valve goes, and will require a 4th chamber. If you utilize an inline type pump, then there's no need for a 4th compartment.

    I've always been one to over think and over-engineer things. Through the help of the good folks on this board--I'm slowly coming around to the realization that the less complicated, the better. There are almost no exceptions to this rule.

    Good luck! :)
     
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  9. Infantry1327

    Infantry1327 Fire Shrimp

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    as far as the carbon and bioballs and all that jaz. there will be small brackets (small pieces off plexyglass glued on the sides) secured to each side of the glass and the pads will just sit on trays (eggcrate) that will just be resting on the brackets so they can be easily removed. as far as replacing them. i can get the pads from my work for free. i do have a phosban reactor that i will also be using. i was also going to make a small basket for the bio balls so i can just pull the basket to get all the bio balls out in one fail swoop. the auto top off will be in the return but the ro water will pump into the inlet. i get what u are saying about easier matienance with the sock and that is a possibility. but with the pads not permanatly fixed i coul always just take them out and cut a piece of plexy to hold the socks. but will the the adding all the pads and bio balls restrict my flow?

    its hard to see in the pic but the return pump will be external and hooked up to a ocean motion 4. so there will be 4 retrn lines. but i am considering having the refugium pump directly back into the tank so i could run 6 heads. i would just leave those a constant stream towards the top of the tank and have the other 4 heads lower in the tank with the slternating flow. all the return heads will be on the left wall and the overflow will be on the right wall so all the water will flow towards the overflow so every inch of water will get filtered. what return plan would u guys thunk would be better
     
  10. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    Correct me if I'm wrong.... You have the tank water going to the fuge section, then the skimmer section, then going to the return section.

    IMHO, you are complicating things too much. First, the fuge needs to overflow to the next section, no pump will ever perfectly match the incoming water 100% of the time.

    One reason for a fuge is to get critters and remove nutrients. You are takinging that fuge water, then filtering it, then bio balling it, then skimming it. Hard to see a lot of critters making it through that. Plus, bio balls work best in air and then they produce nitrates. You want the nitrates bing absorbed by the algae in the fuge. You want them removed there, not PRODUCED downstream.

    That does not leave a lot for the skimmer to work with. The skimmer needs surfaced skimmer water from the tank where it can do the most work. Yes many do use a sock before their skimmer and that keeps a lot of the poop out of the sump and skimmer.

    Personally, I want the least maintenance, and the most benefit from natural processes. My fuge is for critters and nitrate reduction. I use no mechanical filtration and my skimmer gets raw water from the tank, and so does my fuge. Both OVERFLOW to the return section to go back to the tank.

    While you may get carbon pads for free, reactor are far superior for doing their job. Pads are fine though, but clog up and change flows. So I am always down for free, but the carbon is best utilized in a reactor. Running your phos and carbon alternately is no problem. One thing though is that the algae in the fuge is also for phos reduction, and if there is no phos in the water, algae can't grow. Again back to that natural process thin. Let the algae use up the nitrate and phos.

    Just some thoughs. My way is not the only way, but I do think you need to take a closer look at the prcesses you are trying to accomplish and the way you are accomplishing them. Let nature do the work.
     
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  11. Infantry1327

    Infantry1327 Fire Shrimp

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    I get what you are saying powerman. As far as the pump for the sump not matching the intake thats easily fixed with a ball/gate valve. But I see what you are saying about over cleaning the water. If I filter all the water that is leaving the fuge then I will loose alot of the benificial stuff the refugium produces. You also make a good point about the flow alternating because of the pads gunking up. So I think I will just use a filter sock and pump the refuge directly into the tank. Hear it is with the mods
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    Flow issues are not fixed with a ball valve. There is no way to match stuff up perfectly. What you are doing is using one pump to pump back to the tank, that flow is going down to the fuge and pump over to the sump. There is no way you are going to balance two pumps.Let gravity do the work it is fail safe. What happens if the pump fails???? You have a flood that's what.

    Using two different tanks are not that uncommon, but 95% of them use gravity overflows. They drill a bulk head fitting and run it over to the sump. You are drilling the inlet, just drill a couple of overflows from the fuge. You can put up a grate, but you won't need buble traps from the fuge. My fuge only has one partition overflowing to the return. No bubbles.

    Heck, run the pipes over to the return section. There are plenty of folks that skim downstream of the fuge. I know you are splitting your drains and not all flow is going through the fuge. I send raw water to both of mine and overflow to the center.If things muct be different, then it is not the end of the world, but if I have the choice, I feed raw water to both section and return in the middle. Fuge gets it's nutrients and bugs get to the tank, skimmer gets the dirtiest water to clean.

    So changing the order is just a sugestion. I consider getting rid of the pump from the fuge to the sump a absolute must.