175 watt Hamilton or LED

Discussion in 'Metal Halide Aquarium Lighting' started by Kevin_E, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. Kevin_E

    Kevin_E Giant Squid

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    10 hour light cycle (12:30 pm- 10:30 pm) and I've had the lights since May.

    At last check, my numbers were:

    Temp- 77

    Salinity- 1.026

    Calc- 405

    Alc-3.8

    Mag- 1280

    Nitate- 0

    pH- 8.2

    My numbers never drop either, which leads me to believe there is very little growth occurring).

    I don't have a lick of algae in my tank and I never had, so I can only assume my phosphate numbers are low.

    The tank has had a favia (has encrusted a plug slowly in that 8 month stretch) and Candy Cane (2 heads to 4 in that 8 month stretch) since May.

    Have had a zoa colony since late summer that tends to die back over a few weeks and then grow out again (no idea why). I have had another colony add a head or 3 since October.

    A purple monti cap that I bleached (in September) in iodide and then have since regrown into 6 dime size frags (they are wafer thin though, not very colorful and show no growth rings).

    A birdsnest since October (grown a few 1/8th of an inch branches in that 3 months, no enrcusting).

    A red monti since October (maybe 1/16th-1/8th of a inch in one spot in those 3 months, but only shows a little white growth in a corner).

    Green Star polyps since September (no growth at all).

    I have had a red mushroom and a blue mushroom since mid summer that have split once and twice respectively.

    The Monti caps and birds nest are considering fast growers and the very little growth that I have had from them in their 3-4 month tenure is concerning. Everything is bright, happy and colorful, just very little growth.

    I just added a favia, acan, acro species and a digi in the last 3 weeks. I added two frospawn in the last month too. I Can't comment on those yet.


    My initial thought was phosphate inhibiting growth, but like I said, I have had NO signs of algae in this system. I feed every other day and I only throw in 1 pellet at a time until its consumed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
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  3. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

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    It seems like a lot of light. How is coloration? From your description I'd be more likely to guess lack of feeding than light. Light only drives zooxanthellae, which provide sugar (energy). For growth of tissue, you need protein. Also how often and how much do you do water changes? Feeding + water changes + reasonably low nutrients
    usually does it for me. Light seems to be a factor, but not so much once the corals are adapted too it. As long as you have acclimation to the light and have reasonable PAR (also not too much), it just doesn't seem to be a super critical factor. Nutrients don't inhibit tissue growth though, they help it. They may limit skeletal growth, but there are many other factors. From what your describing, I don't see it. Nutrients alone will speed up growth though, for the most part , but can be counter productive too, if it speeds up algae growth. More food, plus better filtration can offset this by feeding the corals, but keeping algae at bay by filtering it out and therefore not allowing the food to break down.
     
  4. Kevin_E

    Kevin_E Giant Squid

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    I feed the LPS every now and again with mysis. I think the colors are nice, but not the growth. My monti caps, for example, are almost solid red or solid purple. There is no white rim of growth. I do a 20-25% water change once a month.

    The lights are now at about 60% output and the tank system (water and rock) is roughly 20 months old.
     
  5. Kevin_E

    Kevin_E Giant Squid

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    Are we all under agreement that the LED unit is as good as, if not better than, the 175 watt Hamilton halide unit? If so, then maybe we can figure out why my growth isn't up to par. How about in comparison to a 250 watt Hamilton unit? (They'd be over a 21 inch deep tank)

    Thanks and Merry Christmas!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  6. gcarroll

    gcarroll Zoanthid

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    What are the overall dimensions of the tank? 175 watt really only has one bulb that I would suggest but that suggestion could be mosterous when it comes to PAR.
     
  7. Kevin_E

    Kevin_E Giant Squid

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    Currently, 24" x 12 x 16. upgrading to 48" x 13 x 21
     
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  9. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

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    Corals like stability. Monthly water changes don't work we'll IME. I've gone through this over and over. I get busy, slack off, only do monthly water changes, growth comes to a stop. Start up with 10-15% weekly again and boom, growth takes off. Over the last decade, I've repeated this scenario dozens of times and like clockwork, writhing 2-4 weeks there is great growth again. I think less frequent water changes may be okay in some situations, with certain routines, but none easier than 15-20 minutes a week for water changes.
     
  10. Kevin_E

    Kevin_E Giant Squid

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    Interesting. Seems like more frequent water changes would create a less stable system. I've always read nutrients (phosphate/nitrate) are a big no with regards to coral growth.
     
  11. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

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    Sort of, but corals need nutrients to grow. For the most part though, it's not the nutrients though that inhibit growth, but rather the algae; both internal symbiotic algae and external algae. Symbiotic algae, if it grows to fast, becomes stressful to the coral and may even competes with the coral for resources. External algae, will try to compete with the coral and overgrow the coral, when it is in close proximity, can release compounds to disrupt the coral, mostly this seems to be excess organic carbon, which appears to cause disruption of symbiosis, in large quantities. Also some algae, such as dinos, can be quite toxic, some even contain a palytoxin like substance.

    As for phosphate, again, for tissue growth, this is not an issue, but some studies show it inhibits coral calcification, another, more recent study found corals grew faster, but the skelatons were weaker and more brittle. Skeletal growth is really only an issue for SPS and to a lesser extent LPS though.

    So, anyways, best is food, with good filtration and low-nutrients, but corals can't grow without nutrients. So, still sometimes better for the nutrients to be a bit elevated, as long as algae isn't an issue. FWIW, I feed my tank several times per day, but am able to keep nutrients mostly undetectable. With carbon dosing, algae was undetectable, too, although, at the moment, I am not carbon dosing and have had a bit of algae here and there, still not too bad though.
     
  12. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

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    Sorry,realized I didn't respond to the second part of your question. I guess just thinks bout it. Your salt has a mean value for each parameter. Some of these components, are used up over time and some, mostly through feeding are added over time. The salts mean values of these parameters though, are generally values that are proven to work and many of these components can't be tested for. So, when we are not doing water changes, these values slowly deviate from the tried and true levels. We then do a water change and it, I'm effect acts to reset the water back to the mean values of the salt. So, if we do this often, we ensure that there is minimal deviation, as there are lots of little resets. If we wait, then we have a larger deviation and need a larger reset. Also though, as we can't test most of the salt parameters, how do we know how far they have deviated. Maybe that one change isn't enough to reset the parameters. Changing a reasonable amount frequently mathematically helps to ensure that untested parameters remain at those mean levels.

    Also, this is a good read on water changes and gets into some of the math (with graps so you don't need to think about the math if you don't want to :p ):
    Water Changes in Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com