One and only trouble shooting

Discussion in 'DrTim's Aquatics' started by Tankstudy, Apr 16, 2014.

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  1. Tankstudy

    Tankstudy Plankton

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    I used your One and Only for a fishless cycle. I started at 2 ppm as the bottle instructed

    I poured in the product last Tuesday and the number readouts are, as of today, at:

    Ammonia: 0.50 ppm
    Nitrites: 5.00 ppm (A little Hard to tell. Using API kit but its definitely between 2-5)
    Nitrates: 40 ppm

    Ammonia has not dropped in the last 4 days but nitrites have skyrocketed and so has nitrates. Should I go ahead and do a water change as the nitrites are becoming fairly high?

    If so, how big of water change? I was thinking at least 50%.

    After the change, if recommended, how should I proceed from there?

    Thanks!
     
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  3. chris adams

    chris adams Purple Tang

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    no water change let it go through the cycle
     
  4. Tankstudy

    Tankstudy Plankton

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    Thanks a bunch. I will just let it sit.
     
  5. DrTim

    DrTim 3reef Sponsor

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    Hello - can you clarify what you mean by
    Did you add just 1 drop per gallon or did you
    ammonia in until you got a reading of 2 ppm?
     
  6. Tankstudy

    Tankstudy Plankton

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    I added the ammonia till it was 2 ppm or 1 drop per gallon.
     
  7. DrTim

    DrTim 3reef Sponsor

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    So you only added 1 drop per gallon - no more. The reason this is important is because I find that many people think you have to add ammonia until your test kit reads 2 ppm and this will almost always mean adding more than 1 drop per gallon if you have added the One & Only because the bacteria immediately start to oxidize the ammonia so when you add just one drop per gallon you'll rarely will get a reading 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen.

    Then people think something is wrong so they add more ammonia. But you only added 1 drop - right?
     
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  9. Tankstudy

    Tankstudy Plankton

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    Yes, I only added 1 drop per gallon.
     
  10. DrTim

    DrTim 3reef Sponsor

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    So here is the situation which is very common.

    You added 2 mg/L (or ppm, close enough) ammonia-nitrogen. You are using the API test kit which measure in units of the ammonium ion so that 2 mg/L NH3-N has to be converted to NH4+ ion so multiply by 1.4 and 2 becomes 2.8. The test is reading 0.5 and let's assume it's right.

    That means 2.3 ppm of ammonium ion has been oxidized to nitrite. Since you are using the API nitrite test kit the math is hard because once again this measures in units of the nitrite ion not nitrite-nitrogen. Sparing you the math it means that 2.3 ppm ammonium converts to 5.4 ppm nitrite ion. Since 5 ppm nitrite ion is the top of the scale and the next value down is 2 it looks like you have a bunch of nitrite but you really don't because 2 ppm nitrite ion equals 0.6 nitrite-nitrogen while 5 nitrite ion equals 1.5 nitrite-nitrogen.

    If the nitrite oxidizing bacteria were not working you would have 2 mg/L nitrite-nitrogen or 6.6 nitrite ion. So both bacteria are working you just need to be patient and give the nitrite-oxidizers another day to work.

    Also all this math shows once again that it is a complete waste of your money and time to measure nitrate. You cannot possibly have 40 ppm nitrate. I assume you are using the API test kit. That measures in units of nitrate ion and so 40 ppm nitrate ion equals 9.0 mg/L nitrate-nitrogen. But you have not added enough ammonia to reach 9 mg/L NO3--N unless you have a lot of uncured live rock?

    The high nitrite is interfering with the nitrate test kit - so save your tests and money and don't use it until the nitrite test drops to less than 1 or 0.5 on the API test kit.

    Cheers
     
  11. Tankstudy

    Tankstudy Plankton

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    The math is quite helpful. It helps me understand what's actually happening ;D Like how you were able to do the math and figure out that there was possibly more ammonia than 2 ppm.

    It had not cross my mind to test the dry and base rocks I used for this setup but in the past, these type of base rocks or dry rocks I used from LFS in other tanks appear to have some amount of ammonia even after thoroughly washing.

    This morning, I tested the water again and the ammonia reads 0 while nitrites are the same, 5, if not more. I'll also skip on testing for nitrates for awhile. I guess because of the extra ammonia, the nitrite oxidizing bacteria will just need a bit longer to catch up especially since the last of the ammonia was just recently consumed.

    Thank you for the quick response and information. Its been very helpful.
     
  12. DrTim

    DrTim 3reef Sponsor

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    To do the math it helps to have this chart

    [​IMG]

    Since you added 1 drop of ammonia that equals 2 mg/L ammonia-nitrogen which when 100% oxidized to nitrite would give you 2 mg/L nitrite-nitrogen (assuming none of the nitrite was converted to nitrate).

    In your case you measured 0.5 ammonium ion I want to convert the value to ammonia-nitrogen so 0.5 divided by 1.358 equals 0.37. So out of the 2 mg/L NH3-N you started with you have 0.37 NH3-N left (we won't get into the lack of accuracy of the API test kit at ammonia values below 1 - we'll just assume it's correct).

    That means that 1.63 mg/N NH3-N has been oxidized to nitrite. Now we convert 1.63 mg/L nitrite-nitrogen to nitrite ion by multiply by 3.284 (see chart) and that equals 5.35 mg/L nitrite ion. Your nitrite test reading is between 2 and 5 if no nitrite has been oxidized to nitrate than the reading would be above 5 which is the highest value on the scale. You could dilute your water 50:50 with fresh seawater (or DI water) measure the nitrite and multiply the value by 2 so get a 'better' reading. Anyways, it seems your nitrite is being converted to nitrate.

    Regarding nitrate - 2 mg/L ammonia-nitrogen would yield 2 mg/L nitrate-nitrogen when 100% of the ammonia is converted to nitrite and 100% of the nitrite is converted to nitrate. To get the 2 mg/L NO3--N into nitrate ion units multiply by 4.427 (see chart) this equals 8.85 mg/L nitrate ion (NO3-).

    To reach a value of 40 mg/L nitrate ion you would have to start with (40 / 4.427) 9 mg/L ammonia-nitrogen or nearly 5 drops per gallon of our ammonia.

    What you have to realize is that the nitrate test kit is actually measuring nitrite (yes,nitrite). The kit reduces nitrate to nitrite and then measures nitrite. So if you have any nitrite in the sample water to begin with you have to measure nitrite separately and subtract the nitrite value from the nitrate value you get. BUT high nitrite interferes with the nitrate test you have so that is why I said to put away the nitrate test kit for now.

    Cheers