Refugium for freshwater?

Discussion in 'General Freshwater Information' started by bama, Feb 21, 2011.

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  1. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    fuge?...... no... algae turf scrubber?... yes.
    Im not a big fan of wet dry filters in fresh or salt water. too much maintenance in the long run to keep them detritus free. With fresh water I prefer poret foam for bio and mech filtration and turf scrubbers for nutrient export (if you cant grow plants for whatever reason).

    I've had several styles of tank setups and have also learned alot setting up and maintaining aquariums for several businesses. In the end, I've learned to keep things simple and effective. As few moving parts as possible. so my sumps are very simple and effective in both fresh and salt water.

    for saltwater, I run a skimmer and an algae turf scrubber.

    for freshwater, I run poret foam and an algae turf scrubber (or grow plants in the DT, not a fuge)

    very effective, relatively cheap, and super easy to maintain.

    once you have a sump with poret foam you will never go back to a PITA canister filter or wet dry. (in regards to freshwater)

    Poret foam is like the protein skimmer of freshwater, I will never set up another tank without one. Super easy and effective. Clean it 2-3 times a year and your done. For my 65g planted freshwater, I'm simply running a 10 gallon tank with 2 sheets of poret foam in it for bio and mech filtration. Could not be happier....... wish I would have done this 6 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
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  3. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    if he threw in a wet dry you could easily just hook that up. Problem is I hate the options for mechanical filtration with wet dry's. best choice with a wet dry is running poret foam just before the return pump rater than floss or socks before the balls. But the problem with that is the balls get dirty and leach nitrates. So the best option, would be to not use the wet dry and to just use a plain glass aquarium sump underneath with poret foam.

    This is just my personal opinion based off the years of experience I have working in the professional world of aquariums. I try to keep things as simple and effective as possible because alot of my clients dont know a thing about aquariums and just think of it as a nice piece of furniture and so I have to design their tank to only need cleaning once a month and still be able to handle high bioload and overfeeding (cause no matter how many times you tell them they still dump half the can of food in during feeding time. lol)

    Can you have a beautiful discus aquarium with a wet dry filter? absolutely and MANY people have great success with it. Just personal preference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  4. Cope

    Cope Plankton

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    I hear ya, and I'll definitely do a little reading tonight (currently at work) on algae scrubbers/poret filters since I know next to nothing about either. Just when I think I'm starting to figure things out, someone throws a new term at me lol. Still, I'm enjoying the ride so far. Thanks for feedback - I assure you I'll be back with more questions!
     
  5. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    questions are always good. You will probably find alot more info about wet dry then you will researching poret. Not nearly as many people have even heard of poret foam much less used it in America. Its very popular in Germany and is used in the infamous "Hamburg Mattenfilter" that is extreamely popular with breeders for its simplicity and effectiveness.
     
  6. Cope

    Cope Plankton

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    Ok so you recommend a plain glass aquarium with a sump using a poret filter - nothing else?
     
  7. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    I would like to add one more thing about turf scrubbers with freshwater. I personally feel like they are more commonly used in saltwater applications. This may because reef tanks normally have stronger lighting for coral, and therefor algae can grow faster, as well as coral and invertebrates requiring lower nitrates and phosphates to thrive. I will never set-up a saltwater tank without a turf scrubber. But I have no problem setting up a freshwater tank WITHOUT one. The cost of salt can add up if you are doing frequent water changes on a reef tank, but with freshwater, most fish are fine with plain old tap water (dechlorinated if necessary) even discus, so its easier and cheaper to do more frequent water changes with freshwater, making turf scrubbers and plants less of a necessity.

    Freshwater tanks can easily incorporate plants within the DT unless you have african cichlids (which you will not if you go with discus). Plants are very effective at removing nitrate if you have the appropriate lighting. You can do a beautiful planted discus tank, but some discus lovers prefer to go with low light, or no plants, or bare bottom, to either provide an environment as close to their natural habitat as possible or for ease of maintenance. Discus, especially young discus require feeding several times a day. Because of this, they also require frequent water changes to keep up on water quality.

    just something to think about. Dont want you to think I am trying to convince you to go with a turf scrubber on a freshwater tank. It will help sure, but in my opinion its not as necessary as it is on saltwater. Much easier to just grow some live plants in the DT (if thats the look you are going for)
     
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  9. Cope

    Cope Plankton

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    Gotcha on reef tanks (no interest in going that route), and I also understand what you're saying about turf scrubbers for fresh and saltwater. I do plan on having plants (the easy-to-care-for, robust variety) with a sand substrate.

    As for the 10g aquarium tank, sump and a poret foam filter - is that it? I'm guessing I have to partition the aquarium using the foam, correct? How do I attach the drain hose to the 10g aquarium?
     
  10. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    It really comes down to personal preference and what you want to get out of your tank. If cost is an issue, then just stick with your wet dry and it will work very well for you no doubt. If however you dont mind purchasing another glass sump (or you may be able to use your acrylic wet dry just by removing the bioballs) and purchasing poret foam (which is expensive up front but lasts forever) then I personally would recommend the poret.

    Some people are die hard wet dry fans. I was at first too (for freshwater at least). As I set up more and more tanks I began to hate water changes more and more. Its not a problem when you have one or two tanks, but I have 7 in my house and about a dozen more tanks I take care of for my clients, not to mention the systems I maintain in my fish store. So I started designing my tanks a little differently. I went from "high tech" to "KISS" or "keep it simple stupid".

    I like poret foam because it lasts a long time, it holds alot of bacteria, and it works great as a mechanical filter as well. Talk to Stephan at swiss tropical. He will be more than happy to talk to you about how much and what size micron foam you would need for your sump.
     
  11. Cope

    Cope Plankton

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    Ok will do - thanks!
     
  12. Blue Falcon

    Blue Falcon Fire Goby

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    The drain should just be able to lay right in the sump ( I normally use vinyl tubing instead of the flexible hose to cut down on noise but it should work either way).

    The foam sheets slide in the sump almost like a divider would. They are just wide enough to "shove" into place and hold themselves in the sump.


    You have a 125g correct? you will probably want to go with a 20 long or 30 long just to able to fit wider, thicker and more sheets of poret than I run for a 65 gallon. I would imagine that a 20 long with 4 sheets of foam 2 inches thick would work just fine, but once again I would double check with stephan first. A 30 long would allow a wider sheet and therefor give your more surface area. If I recall correctly I went with a 20 ppi and a 30 ppi foam on my discus tank.
    With 4 sheets you may want to go with a 10, 20, 30 and maybe even a 40 ppi sheet for polishing.

    For instance on a 150 african tank I maintain for a client, I have a 30 long sump with two 10 PPI sheets, two 30 PPI sheets and finally a 40 PPI sheet right before the return. I feel the 40 PPI is overkill unless you really want to polish the water, but in most cases you wont be able to tell the difference in clarity. Plus a 40 PPI will clog faster.

    Feel free to PM me with if you want more info on my setup or start a new thread for your tank build so we dont steal bama's thread. lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013