why is kalkwasser better then regular Ca

[Birdlady]

LOL!!! I only get the rust colored ones...go figure!!

[serotonin]

What a good thread, I feel the need to bump this for the newbs like me to get a good read

[Tate]

I just put a couple tablespoons of Ms. Wages in a 5-gallon bucket of water I use for topoff. I then topoff as needed except I do it in the morning or after dark when the lights are out. This nullifies the PH swing, which is minimal anyways. I've been doing this for a year, no problems. No fancy driplines needed.

[Tangster]

Lime water is not a magic bullet and dosing at just a couple of Tlb. spoons to a 5 gall mix is like spitting in the ocean no pun intended a good mix at saturation will take closer to 3 Tlb per gallon and if you cool the water the mix will infuse better and be a better stronger mix. Never stir the stuff as you will induce air and the CO'2 will lower the effectiveness of the mix. Keep the bucket sealed tightly with a good lid and cool. A god mixture will have a PH of 12 to 14.. Just drip it in at night when lights are off to help keep the Ca at proper levels..You will still have to supplement the Carbonates. Also you want to replace all evaporated water with the lime water.. to see any results and then at the least it will be a month before you see results.

[Gresham]

From reading many articles on Kalk, most studies I've seen point to CO2 not effecting batches all that much. The link provided earlier, Randy's article on Kalk, is one such source of that information. Maybe Boomer will chime in here

[Tangster]

I'd have to disagree with you or Boomer or Randy the water guy or any one else if they ever made a comment of Carbon dioxide being exposed to our Lime water mixes has little or no effect on its potency . If they did say it then It tells me they are not one I'd take advice from on the subject Myself IMO. Anyone who ever tells you that Carbon Dioxide does effect the strength of lime water solution is totally wrong and misinformed

That’s why anytime L/W is left set exposed to the air it will form a crust on the surface , the reason that crust forms is Its the formation of calcium carbonates a reaction that is caused from exposer to the carbon dioxide in the air. That’s the main reason to pull your stored L/W from the bottom of the holding container rather then breaking that crust seal . That crust seal will form on the top even when sealed tightly but to a lesser degree as all that is being exposed to was the limited air that was trapped inside when the bucket was sealed. the purpose for the crust on the surface and top for our uses of lime water is to help to keep the lower water from exposer to the Carbon dioxide and help limits the penetration of carbon dioxide into the holding vessel that caused the crust on the surface in the first place. Now what that crust is is actually calcium carbonate and that is of not much value to out tanks or corals to be more specific. But as I said earlier exposer of our Lime water to air lowers the mixes strength a lot. I tell you what a air stone to a bucket of Lime water and tell us what all settles out of solution to the bottom of the bucket. You won’t have much of anything you went to all the trouble to mix it for left in the mixture to feed the reef corals. IMO I'm not a expert I could be wrong here ? But I have been using these methods for many yrs and its never failed me and until it does I'll just keep on with its use and I'd recommend anyone else to do there the same way.

[Gresham]

The Degradation of Limewater in Air by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

6. Precipitation of phosphate in limewater and in the aquarium by Craig Bingman, Aquarium Frontiers, Fall 1995

see also: Limits To Limewater...Revisited by Craig Bingman, Aquarium Frontiers, August 1999


In the amount of time it takes a common hobbyist to unload a batch of 20g of kalk mix, it will have lost very little in potency. I do this with 50g's and use it every 3 weeks with a system I run. I've tested before, and at 3 weeks, it looses very little. YMMV

[Gresham]

Randy Holmes-Farley has a BA in chemistry and biology from Cornell University (1982) and a PhD in chemistry from Harvard University (1986). He has 57 patents, numerous publications and several awards in a variety of chemical fields. In 1992 he helped start a pharmaceutical company (GelTex Pharmaceuticals). It was eventually bought by Genzyme where he now has the title of Vice President, Chemical Research. Randy is also the co-inventor of two commercial pharmaceuticals (Renagel and WelChol).

Randy has been keeping reef aquaria for just over 10 years. He has been active on a variety of reef internet forums for that same period, and has been especially involved in chemistry-related discussions. For the past four years he has moderated The Reef Chemistry Forum at Reef Central. He has authored many reefkeeping articles with a chemistry emphasis for Fishnet, Aquarium Frontiers, Advanced Aquarists Online Magazine, and this one (Reefkeeping).

I'd listen to him anyday over you when it comes to science & reef aquaria I work with numerous PHD's, and all regard his articles with total confidence

[Tangster]

Well all i say is to put an air stone into a bucket tell me what happens and than go ask one of them what the crust on the top is ? Its common knowledge that Carbon Dioxide mixed into Lime water equals Calcium carbonates and thats no of any or little value for the reason i or anyone for dosing it for an aquarium uses lime water I'm sure if one has all of their teaching at hand and had the time read them all then you'd find they all have said something differently in ea. book or article. But as for me I'll keep my L/W mix as free of CO'2 as possible. anyone else can do to suit themselves. Its not my money or tanks (:

O.K {I plowed through that read only to get to the summary . I never said using a large holding vessel or pre mixing a large volume of L/W was a No No I have used that method myself. From a 5 gal bucket up to a big 150gal barrel Like many LFS use to hold make up water. All I found out with large storage systems is the PO4's where precipitated out better the longer it sets All I'm saying is try to keep as much Air containing CO'2s out of the mixture as possible. Now i did not see the water guy say adding CO'2 was a good thing . Once that skim has formed its seals its self . again go fine me someone who says CO'2 has no effect on lowering the L.W effectiveness or is a good thing to add . I'll say it once again CO'2 is not good for Lime water mixes. It creates Calcium Carbonates that we don't want or corals don't need. In summary I'll bet you Randy keeps his as closed as he can and I'd dare say when he pours in fresh water if he does its as slow and as little agitated as it can be . And I'd even dare to say he or Boomer do not aerate their mixes either Nuff said by me... .

[Aquilibria]

Both Gresham (RHF) and Tangster are correct,

Carbon dioxide WILL react with kalkwasser reducing its effectivity (as this will form insoluble calcium carbonate,

BUT this will generally occur at such a slow rate to be not applicable to persons dosing kalkwasser into reeftanks, where the solution is generally made to order and used within a few days.

AND YES, bubbling air through kalkwasser will accelerate this process enormously but I have never seen this advised anywhere. It is good practice to keep kalkwasser containers sealed to minimise exposure to carbon dioxide.

Personally yes stir the stuff to get it to dissolve quicker, then leave it alone preferably in a sealed container and dose it all within a few days .

WORST CASE though is that you will just have to dose a little more kalkwasser if it has reacted with carbon dioxide therfore reducing its effectiveness.

Clinton