Nitrates-removing and cause-Water Chemistry-3reef Forums

Jakerupe · 05-08-2008, 10:55 AM

All right. Trying to get some things worked out on my tanks and after my 2 year old cleaning the tank and the nitrates going nuts I have some questions.

I am going to assume that the Salifert test I have is ok for now so I need to figure out where they are coming from.

I read a post about "dead aquarium syndrome" and how high nitrated can accumulate slow enough for the fish in the tank to adjust to but to high for new arrivals. Don't think that is the case since the last two fish have thrived, a queen angel and a leopard wrasse.

I have changed the water regularly on a weekly basis of at least 5 gallons, most of the time just the 5. Until recently didn't follow the method with power head and heater but see now the difference that this makes. My tank is 110 gallon plenty of filtration, no skimmer though.

Is 5 gallon enough?

Also I have crushed coral on the bottom and have over the years added sand from the Ocean to this. Is the crushed coral a possible culprit for the high nitrates?

Finally there are 3 sponges in they system. One on the main return, cleaned 1 or 2 times a month, one on the prefilter intake cleaned about once every week and a half. The last was just added to the power head to make sure the anemone is not liquefied. Do these need to changed more often?

The main filter is the Tidepool II, and there is an Ehiem with glass substrate that I change out 1/2 about every 9 months. The Eheim is a wet dry so is that another possibility?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Will have LFS test water in tank as well as RO to eliminate them shortly.

lunatik_69 · 05-08-2008, 11:16 AM

The bottom line on No3 is that your filteration(sp) is not working correctly or hasnt caught up with your bio load yet. Possible factors are; over feeding, CC is not a good idea to have, fine sand is better(imo), unless you clean it out religously. Those sponges should be cleaned out depending on your turn over and cleaned out with the water that you just took out from the WC. For ex, I have a Magdrive 18 which pushes 1800 gph(1535 @ 4' head), I clean out my sponges and filter pads twice a week.
5 gals for a 110 tank is very little(imo), remember it is recommended to do a 10-15% WC every(depends on your bio load).
As for the Tidepool II, does it have a spinning wheel, if so, some have said that in time, they product No3's. I've been trying to lower my 20ppm No3 for the longest and to no avail. Luna

Jakerupe · 05-08-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunatik_69

The bottom line on No3 is that your filteration(sp) is not working correctly or hasnt caught up with your bio load yet.

Don't think that is the case tanks been established for 8 yrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunatik_69

Possible factors are; over feeding

Very good possibility here, forgot about that factor. When I put new fish in I've found that by keeping the old inhabitants "full" make them less territorial and harass the new fish less. Still a big jump from almost nothing to 50 ppm though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunatik_69

CC is not a good idea to have, fine sand is better(imo), unless you clean it out religously. Those sponges should be cleaned out depending on your turn over and cleaned out with the water that you just took out from the WC.

Ok maybe my thought process is wrong on the nitrates. Are they suspended in the water or are they actually coming from the sand, cc or detrietus? I worry more about getting the water out then actually vacuming the substrate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunatik_69

5 gals for a 110 tank is very little(imo), remember it is recommended to do a 10-15% WC every(depends on your bio load).
As for the Tidepool II, does it have a spinning wheel, if so, some have said that in time, they product No3's. I've been trying to lower my 20ppm No3 for the longest and to no avail. Luna

Lived by 10-15% monthly water changes but figured once a week at 5 gallons/week equals 20gal/month divided by 110gal approx 18% would be better for the consistency. Are you saying that should be weekly? That could explain alot, 10% week vs 10% month!

Yes the Tidepool has the spinning wheel.

You hear any remedies to fix this over time?!?! (Need a praying smile!)

KOgle · 05-08-2008, 12:27 PM

Shew, lots going on here. I'd start by slowing down your feeding. Next I would do some bigger water changes and keep up with that.

Crushed coral isn't bad if you keep it clean but most people struggle with this. Not to mention it's hard on some inhabitants. Soft sugar like sand is better...

I've always heard 10% water changes weekly or %25 every two weeks. A lot of your water change schdule will depend on your load as mentioned. You'll just need to feel it out. Just remember, it's better to over do it than under do it.

Sounds like you've got the desire to get it under control so it's just work from this point on! Nothing that can't be fixed though...

Good luck and keep us posted.

Jason McKenzie · 05-08-2008, 12:29 PM

The best remedy for the Tidepool is to remove the wheel and put a bunch of LR rubble in it's place ensuring the rock is under the water line. Or simply remove the tidepool all together. It really isn't necessary.

I would also agree with Luna. CC has a tenancy of trapping organic matter that would normally be filtered out if not trapped. This allows it to break down and produce NO3

I would also consider getting a skimmer. Maybe ditch the Tidepool for the skimmer.

How much Live rock do you have? and what are the fish you have?

J

Jakerupe · 05-08-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason McKenzie

The best remedy for the Tidepool is to remove the wheel and put a bunch of LR rubble in it's place ensuring the rock is under the water line. Or simply remove the tidepool all together. It really isn't necessary.

I would also agree with Luna. CC has a tenancy of trapping organic matter that would normally be filtered out if not trapped. This allows it to break down and produce NO3

I would also consider getting a skimmer. Maybe ditch the Tidepool for the skimmer.

How much Live rock do you have? and what are the fish you have?

J

Might be your 4000th if I type fast.

Will I loose biological by removing the wheel? Im sure some will come back with the live rock.

There is a little over 200 lbs of live rock in the tank so I have plenty to put in the tidepool. Skimmer is in the basement from when I had the algae in the tidepool but removed that a few years back. Wasn't big enough to keep enough growing.

From the feed back here is think that I may remove the wheel, put in some more rock, get the cc out and reinstall the skimmer. Wouldn't feel comfortable doing all theses at once so what do you three think would be the best order and time frame to keep it stable? I will be moving the tank to the basement in a year or so, so the sand may be the last thing I worry about.

Iraf · 05-08-2008, 12:43 PM

if your tank is aged then you wont lose enough biological filtration from ditching the wheel to make a big difference, may even make it reduce alot nearly immediatly

lunatik_69 · 05-08-2008, 12:46 PM

Jake, I've tried just about everything out there to drop my No3 to around 5ppm. Im in the process of incorp. a refugium to see if this helps. I know that 20ppm isnt a big deal but No3 affects ph and I can never get any higher than 8.0. My system is also 9-10 yrs old and Im hoping this is not a sign of old tank syndrome.
The amount of gals to change out and how often, depends on your bio load(imo). Back in the days when I had only fish(not many), I would do WC only once a month, but as my bio load increased, so has the frequency. I used to change out 15-20gals every week on a 120g system(DT and W/D). I stopped doing so many WC's to see if it was a waste of time and money. It's basicly up to you, either you do WC to replace all the trace elements and export organic elements(no3) or you dose(cal, mag, alk/dkh). Like I said, I stopped doing WC and adding the elements to see if its better.
As for the Tidepool II, i have never had one, but most ppl take out the wheel. Do you have a refugium? How many lbs of LR do you have? What kind filter do you use/have? Luna

lunatik_69 · 05-08-2008, 12:53 PM

I didnt know you were skimmerless

I would definately get it in again. That may just be your problem. Take out the wheel, install the skimmer for now and see. Leave changing out the CC to sand for later. Your skimmer is rated for what size tank. Remember you have to include your DT and a sump or whatever you have. Total system gals. Luna

Jakerupe · 05-08-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunatik_69

Jake, I've tried just about everything out there to drop my No3 to around 5ppm. Im in the process of incorp. a refugium to see if this helps. I know that 20ppm isnt a big deal but No3 affects ph and I can never get any higher than 8.0. My system is also 9-10 yrs old and Im hoping this is not a sign of old tank syndrome.
The amount of gals to change out and how often, depends on your bio load(imo). Back in the days when I had only fish(not many), I would do WC only once a month, but as my bio load increased, so has the frequency. I used to change out 15-20gals every week on a 120g system(DT and W/D). I stopped doing so many WC's to see if it was a waste of time and money. It's basicly up to you, either you do WC to replace all the trace elements and export organic elements(no3) or you dose(cal, mag, alk/dkh). Like I said, I stopped doing WC and adding the elements to see if its better.
As for the Tidepool II, i have never had one, but most ppl take out the wheel. Do you have a refugium? How many lbs of LR do you have? What kind filter do you use/have? Luna

I did put a refugium in the Tidepool a way back and it helped keep the water very clean, but the nitrates were not the reason.

The tidepool is the filter along with the Eheim wet dry, and I have a little over 200lbs of liverock.