kalkwas = 8.6 pH

[serotonin]

I really should calibrate the ph pen with some solution, I'll make a point to be certain it is correct. I do feel it is at least accurate to .1 in the mean time.

You're right about the kalkwasser, not being full strength, DOH!

My green slimer acro is starting to turn white up the side not facing the powerhead. Could any of this be related to the ph/alk issue?

Thanks again all MUCH appreciated !

[Boomer]

Rick

There so called auto buffers, like SeaChem Labs Marine Buffer will keep a pretty constant pH. The purpose behind these buffers to keep the pH say at 8.2 or 8.3. However, there are designed usually to maintain a pH the is already at or near that pH or bring it up to that pH. If such a buffer brought the pH down it could only do so by abiotic precipitation, which means it would have to pull Ca++ and Mg++ out of solution. The bicarb and carbs just can not leave solution by themselves.

If you took a glass of tank water and added a bunch you are not going to find the pH at 8.2-8.3 it will be higher, they are very limited. Bringing down the pH from 8.5 - 8.6 is allot. Finally, any elevation or removal of CO2 in the water will change the pH. These buffers do not sit in the water as unreacted salts waitng for the pH to drop or go up.

I have never seen one of these auto-buffers bring down a high pH without clouding the water. And if your tank has not had a WC in awhile it will get really cloudy when you add these buffers and may remain cloudy for hours.

Auto-Buffers are usually a combination of many buffers. SeaChem's for example is made of Ca++, Mg++, Na+ and K+ salts of bicarbonate, carbonate and borate with a touch of Mag and Cal chloride. Some Auto-Buffer also have phosphates salts, such as some of the FW ones.

There are very expensive buffers called Trisma-Buffers that are unaffected by CO2. These are sometimes used in shipping fish.

[serotonin]

Just a thought:

Would it be a bad idea to mix a dilute of muratic/sulfuric acid and RO/DI water and drip that in? Would that not reduce the alk and pH? As I understand it, the alk is just a measure of the ability to hold a pH. Also, how can having too much alk adversly effect life in the reef?

EDIT

dKH = 13.5
ca = 400
ph = 8.6

Tests were taken after adding a bit of tech-m was added. Just before the MH's turned on



High pH: Causes and Cures by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

URL = high pH, causes and cures. I think I'll give that a read before asking more questions

[serotonin]

Well, after taking those water measurments again. I think by the next water change the dKH shoudl be near 12dKH. Perhaps I will toss any idea of adding more chemicals to the tank and go with the original suggestion of just changing the water out a few times. All the life in the tank seems ok cept' for the green slimer acro. He's only a frag too, so im not really concerned for that at all.
I'll keep on searching for a reason why my pH is so high

Thanks all!

[Boomer]

Would it be a bad idea to mix a dilute of muratic/sulfuric acid and RO/DI water and drip that in?

Yes, that is a bad idea and we do not recommend it. You will see in that article it is also not recommended. I'm quite familiar with that article and I'm with Randy daily on our Chem Forum. See link below on sig. Adding sulfuric acid is a real no-no. The muriatic acid /HCl would be the one to use and yes it would drop the pH and Alk. BUT, you are getting way to carried away here and it is not needed. All you need to do is lower the amount of kalk in you make-up water. And a WC would be a good idea.

As I understand it, the alk is just a measure of the ability to hold a pH.

No not really. That is Buffering Capacity and they are not the same but measuring Alk is a measurement of Bc more or less. Alk is the Acid Neutralizing Capacity (ANC). The ability to neutralize an acid when it is added. Thus, Alk deals with more or less only downward trends in pH.

Also, how can having too much alk adversly effect life in the reef?

I pretty much explained that. I'll try to make it more clear. When you have very high Alk and pH it will cause abiotic precipitation. This is where Ca++ and the CO3-- from the Alk will combine and produce a solid CaCO3, Calcite/Aragonite as a solid. This will not go back into solution. The Alk, Ca++ will drop and bring the pH with it as there is little in the water to buffer the pH and the tank can CRASH, very low pH and Alk. This can happen suddenly and is dangerous for

[Boomer]

I see you posted as I was posting. Good choice I actually deleted my post by accident and had to rewrite it

[serotonin]

sorry about that edit! I do that sometime so it doesnt look like im trying to bump the **** out of my post counter. I have a bad habbit of getting ideas and just blurting (or typing) them out

Anyways, it looks like my water is on its way back to normal as the dKH went from 16 to 13.5 in a couple of days. That initial 15 gal water change i did earlier this week took it down to the 16. I have another 15 gals mixin up now and should be ready soon.

As for the pH I'm really not sure why it is so high. I'm nervous to start my kalkwasser drip back up. One for the high dKH i created (doh) and the high pH that I have no idea why it's occuring.

At this point it doesn't look like I've had any precipitation so I should conisider myself lucky I think ? Oh yeah I should probably add that since the addition of the bicarb I haven't been adding any kalkwasser mix to my top-off water.

Anyways, I thank you, and everyone else helping, again for your kind advice and teachings. Makes sense so far

[coral reefer]

I believe that you are over dosing kalkwasser! I would only add it once a week and see what happens. Yes, Kalkwasser does precipitate phosphate from the water thereby enhancing the ability of corals to deposit calcium and maintain alkalinity by combining carbon dioxide or carbonic acid(dissolved) in your water. High pH is maintained with high alkalinity!!!!!!!!resulting in the ratio of calcium and carbonate ions in the water being closer to the saturation level, making calcification more likely.
Remember that a successful reef aquaria can be accomplished and maintained with deficient calcium levels<400mg/l, but only when carbonate hardness(alkalinity) is normal to high...Troubles occur more with lower alkalinity levels than low calcium ones!
I don't know if I answered your question or not but I guess, what I am trying to say is lower your kalkwasser quantity and days you add it to your tank.

[Covey]

To answer the question will high Alk effect SPS. YES, NSW level should be maintain at as constant a level as possible. The SPS forum dubbed this Alk burn. Elevated alk levels can cause SPS to STN from the base up.

Your numbers and choice of coral is ironic. When I refilled my calcuim reactor last time I tried to crame the extra last 1/2# of media into my reactor (holds 6-6.5# max ARM comes in 7# containers. Get in there...), anyway made the reactor run funny ended up with a with Cal at 480 Alk at 16.8dkh. The acro of choice that showed it first in my case was the Green Slimer as well. Two different frags at two different levels both STN from the base. Both survived. I trun the reactor off for 2 days then set it at a much lower level and everything went down on its own. It took the slimer about a month to cheer up though.

[serotonin]

Yeah I think stn is getting my green slimer. It's incredibly slow, not sure if it's coming to a halt or not. No doubt my latest mistake is not helping the situation.

Thankfully the dkh (and calc) are on their way down. Calc is 380, dKH is 11.5. I've pretty much given up on pH until I get some calibration solution. I figure there's no point in driving myself insane until I can be certain my measurements are accurate (as you guys have suggested )

Anyways, that is a cool coincidence! My slimer isn't looking terrible, but in the same vein it's not healthy either. I'll try to get a pic up tomorrow.

Cheers all, happy reefing!