harmful compounds

Decembermouse · 06-02-2006, 04:08 PM

I don't want to push it, but I would really appreciate some advice. I've posted about a number of things here and just joined yesterday. I know that nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia are bad if they build up. The marine aquaria I'm in charge of have problems with this, and I fix it by changing water. Partial changes, not complete changes. Still... I feel like there's a better way. So,

Do bacteria get rid of these harmful compounds? I don't completely understand the Nitrogen cycle.

Are there other organisms that will metabolize them? Algae, perhaps?

Are there any other chemicals I should worry about? Our filters don't remove protein or anything, our tanks are not well balanced at all, so just assume that if there is a chemical, there's a problem with it, and please let me know how to fix it.

Thanks much guys

RAVEN · 06-03-2006, 09:40 PM

Do partial water changes to bring the nitrates down. Use RO water as replacement water so you dont add any unnecessary chemicals, nitrates and phosphates. Remove as much algae as you can and get a phosphorous test kit. Even low levels of phosphorous combined with nitrates will cause your algae to run wild. Water changes and phosphate absorbing resins can be used get rid of phosphorous. Macro algae like chaetomorpha, lettuce Ulva among others will help with nutrient export. Fish like Kole tangs, Lawnmower blennies along with 40 or so snails and an emarald crab will also help with the algae problem. You might also want to vacuum your substrate to remove as much debris as possible.

There are some chemical oxidizers that can help. Chem clean and Kent Marines Poly ox can help. I've used poly Ox with some success. It oxidizes any sludge so it cant be broken down into nitrates. However I would recommend you stay away from these products and leave them for the experienced hobbyist.

Heres a quick and simple review of the nitrogen cycle. Fish waste and uneaten food make ammonia which is toxic. Denitrifying bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite which is even more toxic to fish. The bacteria then convert nitrite to nitrate the end product. In a cycled or well established tank, this process occurs instantaneously for all practicle purposes.

Hope this helps some.

Decembermouse · 06-04-2006, 10:33 AM

Thanks, RAVEN. Appreciate it. A question about the Nitrogen cycle- what happens to Nitrates? Are there organisms that can absorb/eliminate nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, or phosphates from the water? I mean, I'll get a protein skimmer and do water changes, but I mean in the ocean these compounds get cycled by various organisms. The ocean doesn't have a protein skimmer and we don't manually removes its Nitrogen compounds, it takes care of itself.

I realize there's no way to have a complete mini-ocean but I'd like to make it as balanced as possible in terms of chemical cycling.

I'll check out those oxidizers, as well. I might not end up using them, though. I plan to become this experienced hobbyist, and asap hopefully. I know it takes years of experience, but I'm a biology major and to some extent I believe that if you know the processes and how everything works and exactly how to do things, that you will have more success. I may not be able to play it by ear yet, but I can at least give it a shot knowing how things work, hopefully!

Thanks!

rickzter · 06-04-2006, 11:24 AM

Nitrates remain and the bacteria does not further break down that trace chemical. Macro-algae appears to use it for growth and some species I've heard remove phosphates as well.

You can try media to remove all the remaining chemicals. RAVEN is right, stick to water changes. Do a good portion every week as to not shock the tank.

Decembermouse · 06-04-2006, 12:29 PM

Right, partial water changes. I've been doing those fairly often, changing 1/7 of the tank's water every half week or so. By my calculations, after 4 changes the nitrates+nitrites+ammonia will be 1/2 depleted.

Are phosphates also bad for the animals? And which algae remove them, do you remember?

Again, thanks

Michaelr5 · 06-05-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decembermouse

The ocean doesn't have a protein skimmer and we don't manually removes its Nitrogen compounds, it takes care of itself.

Acutally, the ocean does have a protein skimmer! If you have ever been to the shore and seen the waves foam up on the sand, there's your skimmer!

Mike

RAVEN · 06-05-2006, 07:12 PM

Phosphates and nitrates aren't a problem in the ocean until man started polluting the oceans. Red tides are an example of a cyanobacteria explosion of growth sucking all the oxygen out of the water causing massive fish suffocation and death!
December, I would do larger water changes, say 20-25% daily or every other day to lower your nitrates. Remember, RO water is the best. Once you have lowered the nitrates, then you can do smaller water changes.

As far as nitrates and the ocean goes, denitrification and utilization of nitrates does occur. The floors of the ocean are one big biological filter.

By the way. Check with people on this site for recommendations for protein skimmers before buying one. There are alot of POS skimmers on the market that local fish stores may try to sell you. Most skimmers are way over rated for their listed tank size by 30-50%.

Decembermouse · 06-06-2006, 07:23 PM

Red tides, I've heard about those. I remember that stuff now. Ah, biology. I'm going for a B.S. but haven't done much with marine science, so thanks for the info.

I know there are always lots of products that aren't trustworthy, especially with not-incredibly-common hobbies like marine aquariums. And even less common, someone who knows what a protein skimmer is, much less owns one and knows how it works and how well. So what would you guys suggest then?

I have access to all the RO water I could ever want, thankfully. There's a faucet in the same room as the tanks. I've been doing water changes, and I got a bottle of something (frogot the name) that will neutralize nitrogen compounds, add one capful per 50 gallons I think. I haven't tested yet for levels of nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia, but I think the guy at the pet store said that the compounds are still there, and will still be detected, but are neutralized. I'm not completely sure how this works, though.

I found a box with lots of parts, and figured out how to put it together. It seems it's a protein skimmer. I'll get the model number when I work tomorrow. It's an older one, I think, but I'll run it for now.

RAVEN · 06-06-2006, 08:44 PM

For a protein skimmer you have to decide if you want a hang on tank (HOT) or in sump model. For a 65 gallon tank, I'm partial to the Remora Pro or Urchin Pro skimmers by AquaC.com , They are basically set and forget. ASM makes very good skimmers as. well as the Turbofloater multi by aquamedic. Plan on spending $200-300. The Remora and Urchin skimmers are cheaper but easier to run and not as efficient as the other brands. If you get either of these I recommend getting Mag5 or Rio 1700 plus pump.