Dumbfounded

mamachipy · 02-07-2007, 12:22 PM

OK i'll try to make this simple. I've been set up for three years now. Everything was perfect for years. About 6 months ago my phosphtes and nitrates started to rise. In December I removed the canister filter and added a sump/refugium. In the sump I used the media from the canister (Ehfisubstrate, Ehfisubstrate Pro, and Ehfimech) to jump start the refugium sand. In the refugium I have 3" of Kent Biosediment, cheto, and 7 mangroves. The water flows through Seachem carbon and Seachem De-nitrate on the way back to the tank. Test results as of noon today are

Nitrates-40
Phosphates-.25
Nitrite-.1
PH-8.1
Alk-130
Calcium-400+
Iron-0
Amonia-0

There is no sponge or floss in the system, besides the small sponge on a PH.
Is it possible that the filter media, being three years old, is leaching nitrate back into the water? Should it be tossed out? If it needs to go should I replace it of just let the refuge (20 gal only) do the work? I am out of ideas besides constant water changes. I only feed algea once a day and auto feeder feeds dry food twice a day(very small amount). The fish act like they are never fed. It never lasts more that one minute in the water.

Thanks for the input,
MIKE

m_lacom99 · 02-07-2007, 12:26 PM

Ditch the media, specially if its 3 years old... How big are your fish? Do you have a skimmer?

Marc.

Diver_1298 · 02-07-2007, 12:47 PM

Mike,
It really sounds like you know what you are doing. I see in your sig that you have a skimmer.

Is it producing good foam?
I am with Marc in that I would go ahead and ditch the media. It looks like your sump has been running long enough to use the available bacteria and the macro and mangroves should start to make a difference. Are they healthy and growing?
Do your fish have special feeding requirements? Twice a day seems kind of excessive...?
I would also make sure all your power heads are up and working which helps keep the detritus in suspension so it can be skimmed out.
Jim

mamachipy · 02-07-2007, 12:59 PM

It was foaming pretty good when I first started it up by now it has slowed but still working and getting the green water in the collection cup. The cheto is taking off well but the mangroves were just put in last week so give it some time. There are no special needs, just overstocked. But like I said it only feeds them a pinch of food each time so its not a lot. I guess i will remove the media tomorrow and do a water change when my salt comes in then we will see if the nitrates go down. Thanks for the advise.

MIKE

m_lacom99 · 02-07-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diver_1298

I see in your sig that you have a skimmer.

I missed that sorry...

What are you feeding your fish? If your skimmer was working good and now it slowed down maybe it just needs a little adjustment for it to start up again... Diver is also right on the money with water flow to keep the detritus in the water column...

Marc.

jtReef · 02-07-2007, 01:25 PM

I'm going to take a shot in a different direction here just for fun.
3 year old tank. Has the sand become completely hard where it is no longer being stirred where everything in it is trapped? My thoughts are going towards anything that can slowly change over years slowly over time. It seems like you are all over everything else and have done great over the last 3 yrs thus pushing me to try to find what is not obvious at all. Could there be some sort of new acclimation period when going from canister to a fuge from the addition of oxygen?
I'm just brain storming.

djnzlab1 · 02-07-2007, 04:56 PM

hi,
I was reading on that DSB forum about periodic mud replacement and, boost that critter load in the sand, Many time our tanks become micro-cultres of organisms and they start to die off, its a natural thing so he says to, add some new fiji mud and a bunch of those sand critters, like brisstle worms and those pods. MAybe your culture reached its peak and has a natural die off.
He recycled his mud or refresed it almost every year.
do you have freinds with tanks maybe you can borrow a few critters for the sand. I usally try to hit at least three LPS for sand seeds live to start a new DSB and also add at least a dozen of those bristtle worms.
Doug

Tangster · 02-07-2007, 05:56 PM

How much sand is in this tank or how deep is the better question.

Tangster · 02-07-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnzlab1

hi,
I was reading on that DSB forum about periodic mud replacement and, boost that critter load in the sand, Many time our tanks become micro-cultres of organisms and they start to die off, its a natural thing so he says to, add some new fiji mud and a bunch of those sand critters, like brisstle worms and those pods. MAybe your culture reached its peak and has a natural die off.
He recycled his mud or refresed it almost every year.
do you have freinds with tanks maybe you can borrow a few critters for the sand. I usally try to hit at least three LPS for sand seeds live to start a new DSB and also add at least a dozen of those bristtle worms.
Doug

\

He was dead on I posted so much about the way a DSB worked on another form about 8 yrs ago I'd just soon not take the lid off of that septic tank again But yes these Magic sulfide eating bugs that clean up the tank so well its going to last for ever! According to a well known published expert was so far in left field it was hard to see them.. But this guy you saw posted was dead on Those magic bugs breed like crazy and multiply faster then time But when they die they die off faster and about 3 yrs is the wall if they have not been replenished properly about once a yr. also when people start to add sand sifters they are just adding to the problem.. The reason these animal sift the sand is to eat what is already in short supply Bugs and bacteria.

mamachipy · 02-07-2007, 11:16 PM

Well I feed them Seaweed selects green algae and Nutrifin Max. They get frozen food on occassion (mysis, brine, emerald entre, and marine cuisine). Not all at once. Two cubes only and about once a week. Additives are Kent Pytoplankton, Coralvite, Essential Elements, Iodine, and Stontium/Moly as recommended. As for the water flow I have a Wake2k just off center to the left and a large PH 400+ gph on the right. Nothing I can see is collecting on the sand. The sand is approx. 2"-3" deep and not hard at all. Its a sugar sand and does blow around in front of the wave2k and if the PH points to it, it blows out a hole in the sand. I have never added any worms or pods to the sand. It was purchased dead and dry but I put 100 pound of live rock on it when first set up. There are plenty of snails in it. I got 100 of them when the nitrates went up thinkin that they would stir the sand and lower it. But it sounds like that may have been a mistake if they are chowing down on the bugs and bacteria. If I pull out the media would it be a good idea to put some bio balls in there to take its place? And where would I go to get bristtle worms?
MIKE