dKH going down too quick?

[Jason McKenzie]

I would also recommend adjusting your water change water to the desired values. no sense starting off wrong.
but you must maintain a Ca Alk balance or you will always fight with levels.
Check out 'Reef Chemistry Calculator FV'

[BaxterS80]

Thanks, Jason...That is what I am shooting for...any suggestions?

[Camilsky]

Hey chaps!

dKH characterizes the level of (in ppm or mg) carbonate anions CO₃2- in water solution. Therefore decrease of dKH can be explained in terms of drop of concentration of carbonates. There are few reasons of that:

Firs of all: pH, dKH and temperature are mutually related!

1. The sudden drop of pH results in chemical reactions (PM me if you want some more details about the chemistry) that lead to conversion of carbonates to water and carbon dioxide gas. Proof?! Just take small amount of baking soda (containing carbonates) , dissolve it in water and add a small portion of lemon juice (that contains citric acid and simply causes sudden pH drop). Measure the pH and dKH in this solution before and after the addition of lemon juice. Observe what happens after the addition of juice. What you see?! Bubbles ! This is carbon dioxide that is being generated during reaction!

2. The sudden change of temperature speeds up the reaction of conversion of carbonate into carbon dioxide, effectively decreasing dKH! Proof?! Once again take the solution I've mentioned in the point (1), add small amount of lemon juice and heat it up gently... Compare the amount of bubbles you got from this experiment with the previous one ! The amount of bubbles is proportional to the drop of dKH in your solution!!!! In other words overheating -> faster drop of dKH in your tank! So, people running quarantine! Be advised!

3. Some of the trace elements, can create insoluble salts with carbonates that irreversibly bind carbonates. Carbonates that were irreversibly bound do not contribute to dKH! This is yet another way, when one chemical compound reacts with the other making both of them biologically not active!


Suming up,

1. There is relation between dKH, pH and temp!
2. If you want to have stable dKH, you should use some high quality pH buffer first, and then do dKH adjustment!
3. dKH depends on the temperature so keep your tanks at constant temp!

Enjoy!

P.S.

If you have got any questions I'm more than happy to answer them!

[Tangster]

Originally Posted by Brandon1023

OK so I got my dKH up to around 12 or 13 as of Sunday. I tested my water just now, and it's back down to 7 or 8 already! Wtf? Is that normal?

I used Baking Soda to raise it.

Bicarbonate is not what you should be using anyways .. The remaining sodium left from the bi card is acidic once the carbonates are exhausted and will tend to lower the DKH..
Take the arm and hammer and get you some 20 mule team laundry booster and mix the two at 4 to 1 parts of Bicarb to borate .. The borates will level the dk out also you can dose some Arm and Hammer washing soda to help keep P.H up and level the carbonates out also.. 2 Tbl spoons mixed in Freshwater to 50 gallons will raise them right on up..
I use it often. And the first mixture is about the best reef buffer you will ever use for 2.00 a ton (: as good or better then Kent's or Sea Chems buffer used it for 25yrs .. Still do to lend a hand to the Ca reactor and Kalkwasser reactor..

[Brandon1023]

Originally Posted by Tangster

Take the arm and hammer and get you some 20 mule team laundry booster and mix the two at 4 to 1 parts of Bicarb to borate .. The borates will level the dk out also you can dose some Arm and Hammer washing soda to help keep P.H up and level the carbonates out also.. 2 Tbl spoons mixed in Freshwater to 50 gallons will raise them right on up..

OK what's the "Mule Team Laundry Booster"? And once I figure that out, you're saying mix 4 parts of the Baking Soda to 1 part of this Laundry Booster?

LoL Tangster I love your advice and you have loads of experience and I trust you, but MAN sometimes I have a hard time deciphering what you're typing out

[Tangster]

LOL yes well I have as hard of a time typing it (: Its not what I do or ever did if I could write or type you'd be paying for the book When I came along I was and still am a gear head (: And am better at other things then typing (:

OK the Laundry Soda is just Sodium carbonate Not Bi carbonate and it's use will raise the P.H and rather quickly and is more stable as a stand along buffering agent then Bi Carbonates ..
The Laundry Booster is borate pure and simple and what that does id to stabilize the carbonates and help to hold them steady! Thats why more would have less DKK issue's if they tested for percentage of the tanks carbonate buffering capacity and what portion of the capacity was made up from Borate's

When we had to mix all of anything we ever used in a aquarium we mixed our own salts and additives . All of the laundry stuff is just natural ocean minerals mined from old sea beads in Utah (: and Death Vally Ca. ad the old salt flats.. And the Aquarium suppliers just mix it up from our old recipes and sell it for 500% more then what it cost!.

Like by adding Dolomite to ant reactor you will naturally feed Magnesium to the systems along with pure carbonates (: This will also help is used passively as well thats what we used to use on the bottom of the tanks in the olden days (: Nothing you buy from Kent's Sea chem or reef what ever is nothing more or less then these simple elements..

[Brandon1023]

Ah ok, very cool! Thank you for going into a little more detail for me. I've been "reefing" for 5 years, but am only just now getting serious about it and not jackin around and letting things just die off only to replace them the next weekend. I'm trying to figure out all the chemistry involved and man....it's hard! Karma!

[Tangster]

LOL No its really simple see thats why I came along long before the experts I can't even figure out what the hell they are saying anymore .. Like the Randy Hommey guy Man I can try to read it but I can't and when I think about what I did read i can't understand it.. Its a damn fish tank not a nuclear reactor (: And I pronounce nuclear just President Bush does Its a southern thing (:

But the reaction of the Carbonates and ca in a reef tank are not that hard to figure out.. I can un-confuse you in a little bit.. First off forget about P.H P.H means less then squat.. Carbonates are what matter , They control P.H P.H does not control them.. You can have a perfectly balanced reef , DKH of 12 and a P.H of 7.7 And on the other hand you can have a P.H of 8.4 and a DKH of 5.. Give me the lower P.H and perfect DKH! A simple air stone in a sump with a strong air pump can raise P.H And thats what most P.H issues derive from Lack of Dissolve Oxygen people running glass tops to keep salt off the lights is a major problem.Not enough of the waters surface is being skimmed off and ran through a sump or turned over.

To much information out there to day It overloads me and most so called experts with their 10 yrs of reefing just make it more complicated.. Bottom line is not much profit in a air pump and a reusable wooden air block but thats most times all a P.H problem needs..