Wild Caught doesn't mean Drug Free

BayNights · 02-02-2005, 04:31 PM

From what I understand in the saltwater fish trade there are almost zero fish that are truly net-caught fish (using no drugs). The problem is simple. A LFS wants to keep its customers happy. Fish stores buy the lowest price they can find from distributors to offer customers lower prices and also to make a better profit (livestock is hard to keep!) Distributors are only turning over the livestock, skimming from the top and they naturally go for lowest price also (otherwise you don't stay in business). Now think who actually caught your fish. Collection stations are filled with native people making a certain amount per fish they catch. To hand catch a fish is ALOT harder than drugging, resulting in many less fish per day, and severely affecting that persons income. For someone supporting a family on less than a buck a day, there's not much of a choice. The common opinion is "I don't buy drugged fish" among hobbyists. But, unless a LFS owner has been to the collection station who really knows? I think the hobby has turned their collective backs to this aspect of collection. Let me know what you think.

Gresham · 02-02-2005, 04:48 PM

You couldn't be more wrong BayNights. Net collectors can double a dopers yield. I have no time right now, as I was up till 4 am acclimating net caught fish from the Soloman Islands. Dope is only used in two local currently, indo and PI. Quin is used in a few places, like Haiti, but it's not widly used by collectors.

Birdlady · 02-02-2005, 04:50 PM

This had been tossed about here and there on the boards here.

I disagree that the hobby has turned their backs on this subject, evidenced by the increase in captive bred fish available today as compared to 10 years ago.

We had also talked about how is the end consumer to know if the fish are truly 'net caught'. *There is really no absolute way. *Gresham, on these boards is a 'middle distributor' (Is that pretty close Gresham?) and is probably most familar with the practices in the trade and some tips as to what fish are mostly net caught and which are mostly not. *Altho, there are precious few clues.

Please someone, correct me if I am wrong, but I think most Hawaiin fish are net caught, as they are subject to USA rules and regs. *Other than that, you are at the mercy of your LFS, who in turn are at the mercy of their distributors. *Hopefully most are honest...but I am sure some are not.

Good topic....let's see if we can hash out some guidelines at least....I for one, would pay more for a fish I know to be net caught or captive bred.

Birdlady · 02-02-2005, 04:57 PM

Ooops! *Posted at the same time Gresham! *Thanks for the info! *

I am glad to know that net catching yields a *better living for people doing that!

I look forward to the expanded version!

Jason McKenzie · 02-02-2005, 05:45 PM

From what I have heard Gresham is heavily involved in many parts of the world with training local fisherman to adapt to net fishing. The stories of his adventures have even been told to me by LFS up here in Canada (not knowing I know him through 3Reef)

Gresham is a wonderful resource to have here at 3Reef.

J

dx7fd2 · 02-02-2005, 05:52 PM

It would probably be easier to test the fish brokers for cyanide in their bloodstream than the fishies!!

I agree BL I would definitely pay more for net caught or captive raised than I would drug induced trapped fish.

Say Gresham, did you mean quinine in your last post when you said quin? I have not heard of that being used only cyanide

The freshwater tropical fish industry went through a lot of this over the last 50 years. Now there are so many people raising tropicals that there is a glut of fish on the market that used to cost a fortune. Imagine paying $25 for a "mountain cloud" that costs less than a dollar now!!

Drew

BayNights · 02-02-2005, 05:58 PM

Thanks for the replies, I've heard different stories on collection and interested to hear what others in the hobby think?

OoNickoC · 02-02-2005, 06:00 PM

[quote author=BayNights link=board=Fish;num=1107387107;start=0#0 date=02/02/05 at 18:31:47]From what I understand in the saltwater fish trade there are almost zero fish that are truly net-caught fish (using no drugs). *The problem is simple. *A LFS wants to keep its customers happy. *Fish stores buy the lowest price they can find from distributors to offer customers lower prices and also to make a better profit (livestock is hard to keep!) *Distributors are only turning over the livestock, skimming from the top and they naturally go for lowest price also (otherwise you don't stay in business). *Now think who actually caught your fish. *Collection stations are filled with native people making a certain amount per fish they catch. *To hand catch a fish is ALOT harder than drugging, resulting in many less fish per day, and severely affecting that persons income. *For someone supporting a family on less than a buck a day, there's not much of a choice. *The common opinion is "I don't buy drugged fish" among hobbyists. *But, unless a LFS owner has been to the collection station who really knows? *I think the hobby has turned their collective backs to this aspect of collection. *Let me know what you think.[/quote]

I see your concern, but is sadly inaccurate. I work @ a LFS. I will simply say the LFS knows full and well what collection methods are being used if they careto go the extra mile to find out, in many cases it is far less than a mile. Finding out may be expensive or tedious but is nearly always possible.

Gresham · 02-02-2005, 08:53 PM

Well, tell your stories then, but as for me, and the truth I live every day, it's a very different world. 2 places use dope, a few use quinaldine, most don't. Problem is, 70% of the trades fish, comes form those two countries

Both countries have a large net caught population of collectors, and just as large population of dopers. Dope costs 400x more to use then nets, so if a collector only had a dollar to spend on food, or dope, which would he choose? My boss, Steve Robinson has been dealing/revealing this side since the early 80's when he did a series for FAMA. Read his early articles on cyanide and netsmen, it makes for some good reading. There's about 30 articles in total.

dx7fd2 · 02-03-2005, 10:14 AM

At 400x the cost why would anybody use dope anyway? Doesn't seem like you could make a profit. Is the fish trade industry going to change significantly with more fish being captive raised, or is that just not going to happen?

I'll read the FAMA articles...sounds interesting!!

(BTW I love your disclaimer in your sig line!!)

Drew