DEATH TANK!!!

[Speedy]

Alright guys, I need some help. I'm gonna kneel here. I don't really know what I'm doing here. I'm trying. I read through the forums every spare second I got. But my tank has been up a little over a month and I've already lost 3 creatures (feather duster, blue yellow tail damsel, and last night I just lost a fire gobi). I have promised myself not to get anymore fish until I can get this all straightened out.

To make matters worse I don't have an unlimited budget. I have a small 10 gal. tank, i know that's a cup of water to most of you. But it's a cup of water I'M drowning in.

How did they die? The damsel was fine in the tank for about 3 weeks then we realized that he was injured. A peice of skin was torn off of him. I couldn't put my finger on what it was, but I suspected the large emerald crab. We noticed white spots all over him including his fins. I asked around and heard the word "ich". Went home that day, and the spots were gone. He was eating fine. Everything was ok, until I came home one day and he was gone, dead, it was horrible, it wasn't a peaceful death either.

The gobi, I got him last Fri. floated him in the tank for 30 min. He was shy, but he would eat, and he would occasionally swim around a bit. Yesterday morning my wife calls me at work and tells me that he's full of white spots. Grrrrrr. So I told her to take the emerald crab out that we would go to the local fish store and exchange him for a smaller one. We got the smaller crab and a banded coral shrimp. We asked about the ich, and the girl told us that she didn't recommend medication, but that there was a good chance that the shrimp would clean him up. When we got home, the gobi was in bad shape. He was dying. I literally saw him die in my tank. That really sucks. ???


My suspicions: Last night we bought a thermometer. At 10:30 PM last night the water temp was at 76 degrees F. This morning I checked it at 7:30am: sure enough, 72 degrees F. I know this is not good. I plan on having my wife check the temp during the day. If The temp is higher than 79 degrees then I have to find a chilling solution to use in combination with a heater. The thing that most bothers me is that I have no way of controlling the AC, I live in a small efficiency on the side of the main house. Could the temp have killed my fish?

My only other suspicion is that the crab was harrassing the fish. I did notice that last night my blue-green chromis was still during the night. He used to shake a lot at night when the big crab was there. I know these things aren't normal. I feel bad and hopeless. Any help you can lend I would really appreciate. Thanks.

[inwall75]

Oh boy. Sorry for your loss. I'm going to give you a few basics and then give you a link to a page that will answer all of your questions.

Basically, Ich is in just about everyones reef tank that doesn't use a quarantine/hospital tank prior to putting new fish in it. Fish are often able to fight off an ich infection easily provided they have stable parameters and are not stressed. I do believe that the temperature swings and/or the crab may have contributed to your problem.

Ich has a lifecycle where it attacks the weak or stressed fish, gathers enough food to reproduce and then falls off the fish. Yeah, the Ich is gone!!! Unfortunately, no it isn't. It is just in another form. It will be back with a vengeance and if you have fish in the tank that are still stressed, they will get attacked.

If you are willing to take that crab back to the LFS and fix your temperature swings, then you can likely solve this for the long term. PS---I don't think you need a chiller, just a heater with a thermostat.

I'm sorry to say this but a CBS is not a cleaner shrimp. It won't clean anything off of your fish.

Here's the article, I hope it's helpful. Again, I'm sorry for your loss.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm

[Matt Rogers]

Oh man that sucks. Small tanks can be hard sometimes because the water can get thrown out of balance a lot faster than big tanks.

Do you own a test kit? If not I would suggest getting the 'marine basic' by Seachem so you can have an idea what's going on. They are a good value for the money - $20.

72 isn't that low, but it may not be helping if a fish is injured. I would set the heater at 75.

More live rock would help stabilize your tank. Save for a skimmer too.

Keep reading, keep asking questions and we will figure it out.
[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Craig Manoukian]

Without going to the link inwall75 posted, I can tell you that the emerald crab was very much the reason for ich. as IW75 said, ich is present all the time in most tanks. It can only attack fish that are weakened or under stress. The harassment of the crab and the somewhat low tempof 72 degrees was enough stress to allow the ich to claim your fish. Bummer dude!

What you can do:

Don't add any fish for six weeks, the life cycle of ich.
Trade the CB shrimp for a Red Skunk Cleaner Shrimp.
Get a good 200 watt heater and stablize the temp of your tank at around 76 degrees. Should be less than $25.
Add 10 - 15 lbs of cured LR before adding any fish and let it cycle. Don't add fish until there is no measurable ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates.
Pick one more fish to go with your Chromis and don't overload your 10 gallon tank with fish. HTH

[Jason McKenzie]

Hey Dave sorry for your loss.
I'm wondering if the rock in the tank is Live Rock? Also the "Cycle" Product beside the tank What is that?

Have you tested for the basics (as Matt said) I would test for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. For Ammonia and Nitrite a reading above 0.0 can be fatal to fish.
you have a thermometer but do you have a heater. I keep my tank @ 79 and in the hot months it will get to 83.

Floating your fish is only the first step to acclimating them to your tank. I usually float the bag for 20mins. then add 1/4 cup of tank water to the bag wait 20min then another 1/4 cup I will continue to do this for about 1.5 hours

I have had a 10G and I know it is very hard. I gave up as my 75G is much easier to control

J

[david]

* * * Sorry about that David!
Since temp seems to be an issue for david wouldn't it be o.k. to keep the tank temp at 80'F that's where I keep mine? The main thing would be to make sure the temp dosen't move aroud and stays constant. I do know that much.
And just a thought here. Would'nt it be a good idea to also tell the lfs that the "returned items" came from the "tank of death" to lessen the spead of the infection? Is there some reason that the lfs's fish won't get ich now also?
* * * Cycle is "good bacteria" in a bottle 1,000,000 per drop (see photo ) I have used it mainly to jump start a new set up with sand thats not live and no live rock.I think it did well I use it in my fresh water tanks also.

[Jason McKenzie]

But "Cycle" is not somthing to be used with Live stock in the Tanks, Right?


J

[david]

Sure jackets,
You can actually use the whole bottle. It says on the bottle it is impossible to overdose. It's good stuff really. Although I have found out they make the same thing specifically for salt water and cycle is for salt or fresh but I've never used anything but the cycle.



D.

[Speedy]

Thanks for all your help and support. We reallly appreciate it.

First to address the rock I've attached a pic of what my rock looks like now. It is live rock. And as you will notice it has alot of green on it. I also have some areas with nice red velvet on it.

I have no idea whether it is bad to have so much green on it, but I know it looks very much alive. Please advise.

On the bottom left part of the pic, you will see that the bigger slab of rock has alot of what looks like alot of bleached rock, I assume it's because the light can't get to it because of the shape of the rock. I've also noticed that the rock has many small black dots, I have no idea what this is, but I fear its a ich in one of it's stages. I'll post up a betther pic of it.

The bottom right pic is the same area of rock only that this time the pic is taken from the side. You can see the bleached rock on it, but notice on the joint between both slabs there's yellow and red texture in there. Probably the part of the rock that has most interested me, however I have no idea what it is. This is the first decent pic I have of the area. Please tell me your thoughts on this.

About the cycle probuct... yup that's the one I've been using. I administered one capful every other day for the first month. After that I've been putting one capful a week. (Advised by the LFS- honestly I don't trust those guys anymore- call me crazy). I've seen no obsurd effects in adding the product. On the contrary, I noticed that in several crevices in my rock there are hundreds of tiny featherduster looking creatures that are very active during "lights on" (even though they are in relatively shaded areas).

The only thing I know about the chemical conditions of my water is that at the LFS they tested it and told me it was perfect.

Who know what that means???

Either way....

What I'm planning on buying soon:
Seachem Marine Basics test kit, 200 watt heather, trading the CBS for a Red Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, I think I'm gonna get a few more pounds of live rock (I'm afraid of over loading the tank).

What I'm planning on buying later:
Protien skimmer.
(Much later) A bigger tank setup.


Guys you know that we greatly appreciate all your advise.

Inwall, Matt, Craig, Jackets, David, special thanks for being patient and teaching us these basic but very essential parts of this very exciting art. I'm sure every fish and coral in the ocean would love to have any of you as their owner. Thanks alot guys.

[Speedy]

Here is the pic of the black dots on the rock.

There sre two areas that worry me.

1. The black dots on the rock.

2. The green slime.

If anybody recognices anything please let me know.


Thanks