Banggai cardinal - Threatened Species.-Tropical Fish - Page 3-3reef Forums

JustPhish · 09-23-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattfish

OK - makes sense. I suppose then, the discriminator is whether someone's committed to a bigger picture, or trying to lowball a tank. I probably shouldn't say it that way - I understand that money is a factor and the some people are looking at how to add to their tank on a limited budget, and that money means the difference between 2 fish they want and one. Not being willing to spend shouldn't necessarily imply bad motives - some have budgets to consider, some don't see or understand a difference, some don't care.

When we got tank-bred false clowns, they didn't take to anemone's right away, probably because they were genetically removed from understanding that this is their protection. We were frustrated with that, although eventually, they did take (of course, by then we'd bought 5 anemones....) so I guess the issue really is education, in the same spirit as lots of causes.

Makes me wonder if a non-profit formation that enlists lfs' is a way to make that point. Wouldn't be the first time that a non-profit advocation of a position, and direct appeal to the commercial outposts would make a difference.....

Budget shouldn't be the way one decides between purchasing a wild caught fish which is just short of guaranteed to die vs the same species captive bred which has a much better chance at living a nice long life. Like I said before, which fish is more expensive in the long run? It's the dead one! Sure the captive bred will cost more upfront, but if it lives you're way ahead of the game. What good is the deal you got on the wild caught if it didn't live two weeks?

As far as clown go, it's in their genes. They know what to do with the right anemone. Even wild ones might not take to an anemone right away. Many factors play into this. The biggest one is...does the anemone offered normally host the clown in the wild? They might have never seen that type of anemone before in their little fish lives. How would they know to go right into it 5 minutes after being introduced into the tank? Then of course, there's many other things that look just as soft and pillowy as an anemone. An LPS, a clam, a large frilly mushroom. I could think of a handful of things I'd like to nuzzle against in my tank and I'm not even a fish. A clown, yes. Fish? No.

Mattfish · 09-23-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPhish

Budget shouldn't be the way one decides between purchasing a wild caught fish which is just short of guaranteed to die vs the same species captive bred which has a much better chance at living a nice long life. Like I said before, which fish is more expensive in the long run? It's the dead one! Sure the captive bred will cost more upfront, but if it lives you're way ahead of the game. What good is the deal you got on the wild caught if it didn't live two weeks?

I think we're vehemently agreeing here - if you want to have a tank, then you have to expect that it costs money, and you should also expect that you're accepting responsibility for caring for the animals you choose, and that buying something because it's cheaper even though it's more likely to die and only "look good in your tank" for a short time is specifically NOT accepting that responsibility. FWIW, the understanding about budgets and stuff was really more of a way of pointing out that you may want that expensive fish you can't afford, but then "cheating" and finding a way to get it cheaper, despite the responsibility and the consequences. I'd bet that most people who don't participate in forums, and just throw a tank together without research and reading and doing it all by trial and error, are the ones, by and large, who don't understand that they have responsibilities or choose not to accept them. This is where the problem starts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NATIVEVAMAN

Matt you always look at things in a wonderfully idealistic way.Dont ever take off those rose colored glass's.

Yeah, I've been accused of that before, specifically by my oldest friend (known him since we were 4) and he happens to be a psychologist. But having run a pretty decent size non-profit (the largest non-profit flying club in the world) for several years, stuff like this can actually start to make a difference. As part of a way to "give back" a bit to this hobby, I'll look into forming a non-profit (I think it's horrendously complex, but I can check into it), and see if this is one of those things that maybe a bunch of those interested can join in on - who know's? Maybe it'll make it a difference, and maybe it won't....

Sounds silly, but the best thing I can think of for my gravestone is "he made a difference".....

amcarrig · 09-24-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattfish

When we got tank-bred false clowns, they didn't take to anemone's right away, probably because they were genetically removed from understanding that this is their protection. We were frustrated with that, although eventually, they did take (of course, by then we'd bought 5 anemones....)

You think you've got problems? My tank raised clowns had their choice of all kinds of "anemone like" corals to nest in but what did mine choose?

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