Banggai cardinal - Threatened Species.

[Mattfish]

If what I've seen is true, you'd think they'd be called Rabbit Fish, but that name is already taken......

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Rabbit fish might be appropriate if there infant mortality rate wasnt so high.In the wild entire broods become dinner.Captive bred fish seem to fare better with something like 4 out of 20 surviving.As breeders learn about the fish the survival rate will increase.

[JustPhish]

Originally Posted by Mattfish

I can't speak to the issue of endangerment other than to say that there seems to be no problem with captive or tank breeding, and with that being the case, why would anyone want or need to buy a wild-bred one?

Simple...PRICE. Many people constantly tout about captive raised, responsibilities etc etc, however when it comes time to stand in line at the register 90% of those people contradict everything they said with their wallet.

I know that there's no way I will sell any captive grown frags of SPS for $30 when I have whole wild colonies of sps for $35-$40 sitting nearby. Just won't happen.

If your LFS had two different tanks, one with captive raised banggais for $30 each and one with wild caught banggais for $10 each, which do you think is going to be emptied first? Even if the LFS tells the customers "You know those wild ones don't really live very long. There's a good chance it's going to die." I bet 90% of the customers are either not going to care, or are going to say to themselves "This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm a fish keeping God and I can keep these alive for sure. They won't die on me". then poof a net scoops up 5 of the wild caught. Perhaps that's not what would happen if you were the customer, but maybe you want 5 and the cost of 5 captive bred ones at $150 is just too great over the $50 the wild ones will cost you.

Let's also not forget that the people who cruise the boards and such represent only a tiny fraction of the number of people actually involved in the hobby. The vast majority of folks are not doing anything to keep themselves well informed.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Phish, the plain truth is most people dont know or dont care,they vote with there wallet.I guess also like you said,if they knew would it make a difference.I will bet on no.

[Tangster]

A lot of time goes into just corals it takes lot of hrs and care to get a simple stick frag up to small colony size for sale.. I could buy wild corals for far far less then what I can buy or sell cultured corals .. As mentioned people want to believe and say they are buying /selling only aqua-cultured animals as it makes them feel P/C But at the check out line it is as mentioned already their wallet they vote/worry about.

[ziggy222]

its always nice to have the choice available though.say one time you go to the lfs and you can only aford a wild fish,but next time you have just got your income tax return and you buy a captive raised one.well that makes a little difference at least.by the way,lots of people pay the $25-35 for captive raised acro frags like 2 inches but just the nice color frags.

[Mattfish]

Originally Posted by NATIVEVAMAN

Rabbit fish might be appropriate if there infant mortality rate wasnt so high.In the wild entire broods become dinner.Captive bred fish seem to fare better with something like 4 out of 20 surviving.As breeders learn about the fish the survival rate will increase.

True, although FWIW, our lfs has a separate breeding tank and successfully turns out large broods each time - the cool thing about Banggai's is that they start out in life exactly the same as their grown shape and color, only much smaller.

Originally Posted by JustPhish

Simple...PRICE. Many people constantly tout about captive raised, responsibilities etc etc, however when it comes time to stand in line at the register 90% of those people contradict everything they said with their wallet.

If your LFS had two different tanks, one with captive raised banggais for $30 each and one with wild caught banggais for $10 each, which do you think is going to be emptied first? Even if the LFS tells the customers "You know those wild ones don't really live very long. There's a good chance it's going to die." I bet 90% of the customers are either not going to care, or are going to say to themselves "This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm a fish keeping God and I can keep these alive for sure. They won't die on me". then poof a net scoops up 5 of the wild caught. Perhaps that's not what would happen if you were the customer, but maybe you want 5 and the cost of 5 captive bred ones at $150 is just too great over the $50 the wild ones will cost you.

Let's also not forget that the people who cruise the boards and such represent only a tiny fraction of the number of people actually involved in the hobby. The vast majority of folks are not doing anything to keep themselves well informed.

Originally Posted by NATIVEVAMAN

Phish, the plain truth is most people dont know or dont care,they vote with there wallet.I guess also like you said,if they knew would it make a difference.I will bet on no.

Is the difference in price really that large? I'm asking because I haven't really noticed - but I think the argument that people will typically buy the cheaper ones and that most people are not on the forum's is definitely true. I was in one of the lfs' I don't get to often, and while I was looking around, this guy comes in and asks how much a particular coral cost. I couldn't see what he was looking at but when the lfs guy told him it was around $75, his reply "that's too expensive - I want something around $20". The lfs guy explained he couldn't just "cut him off a piece", and the "customer" was pretty miffed about the whole thing and walked out.

My lesson was that there ARE plenty of people who don't care. On the other hand, it's good to know thet they are a large number who do get on the forum's and are interested in doing things right.

[amcarrig]

Originally Posted by Mattfish

Is the difference in price really that large? I'm asking because I haven't really noticed

Yes, a wild caught banggai will cost you about $15-20 retail while a tank raised one will cost you $30+ retail.

[Mattfish]

OK - makes sense. I suppose then, the discriminator is whether someone's committed to a bigger picture, or trying to lowball a tank. I probably shouldn't say it that way - I understand that money is a factor and the some people are looking at how to add to their tank on a limited budget, and that money means the difference between 2 fish they want and one. Not being willing to spend shouldn't necessarily imply bad motives - some have budgets to consider, some don't see or understand a difference, some don't care.

When we got tank-bred false clowns, they didn't take to anemone's right away, probably because they were genetically removed from understanding that this is their protection. We were frustrated with that, although eventually, they did take (of course, by then we'd bought 5 anemones....) so I guess the issue really is education, in the same spirit as lots of causes.

Makes me wonder if a non-profit formation that enlists lfs' is a way to make that point. Wouldn't be the first time that a non-profit advocation of a position, and direct appeal to the commercial outposts would make a difference.....

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Matt you always look at things in a wonderfully idealistic way.Dont ever take off those rose colored glass's.