Will removing my sand lower my alkalinity?

Matt Rogers · 10-23-2005, 10:13 AM

Another sand topic that I am sure will stir up the debris. Please stay on topic.

I've been thinking about sand lately and I was wondering if you go barebottom if your alk typically will lower because you lose the buffer from sand?

I personally like the look of sand, but thought I'd keep the 20 long experiment (diy rock (success!) and beach sand (1st batch good - 2nd bad) going and try something new since I need to remove my beach sand. I ~think~ this sand I isn't as calcium rich as the stuff from the tropics and may have some nasty stuff, the fish are fine but the corals grow slow and the alk wants to stay at 2 meq/L.

If they have to, how do barebottom tanks compensate for alk?

Birdlady · 10-23-2005, 01:01 PM

It is my understanding that sand does not break down until the pH is lower than 7 (thus the CO2 cannisters on the CA reactors). I don't think you will see any lowering of alkalinity IMHO

Matt Rogers · 10-23-2005, 01:53 PM

Cool. So are there any advantages about sand I should worry about if I remove it other than asthetic and nitrate reduction?

EDIT - I am just thinking out loud, but couldn't debris in the sand bring down alk?

Birdlady · 10-23-2005, 06:30 PM

Down sides, IMHO, aethetically, I like sand, you will lose denitrification ability to some degree possibly leading to nitrate issues, (like you just said

) you will lose a quantity of bethnic and live critters which are both denitrifiers and food for larger aquatic life.

It is possible that sand may lower alkalinity through the decay process, I suppose

Not sure tho

Covey · 10-23-2005, 06:57 PM

From a sand bed lover. Sand beds in many ways LOWER alk and calcium. Like BL said the sand won't dissolve until well after everything in the tank would be dead. So it is hard to say it is helping. Some of the stuff i have been reading on sandbed dynamics suggest that all of the little pods and creature's that support the function of the sand bed actually increase calcium demands. Basically all the little tube worms and such that pull water in and out of the sand bed have there own calcium carbonate demands. Many BB nuts report a drop in the calcium demand by around 30% when they switch.

Covey · 10-23-2005, 07:11 PM

BB:
+aesthetics
+possible lower nutrient levels
+can run CRAZY crazy turnover rate. Seen 120X

-alot more work
-alot more equipment

DSB:
+aesthetics
+Reliably lower nutrients levels
+support a food source for corals

This seem more of a personal choice than a reason to strap a bomb to your chest and go teach Carbi Sea a lesson there are WAY WAY to main zealots on both sides. Both work and both have produced beautiful tanks. It is a credit to how far the hobby has progressed that two very different methods can product such good results. I have consider the switch to BB but don't see why you can't do most of BB improvement without removing your sandbed. Keep the best of both worlds.

Matt Rogers · 10-24-2005, 07:23 AM

Thanks Covey for the info.
How does BB turn into more equipment?

Covey · 10-24-2005, 10:26 AM

The suggestions from that BB rock cooking link suggest you need a certain level of equuipment to make BB worth while. Like a skimmer rated 3 or time over the size of your tank. More pumps, BB you are suppose to add more flow to your tank. The flow keeps the detrius in suspenision and it hopefully get over your overflow and into your gaint skimmer. More than anything I think this is the most useful part of BB. The same thread also suggests but didn't demand the use of UV and Ozone to futher help the filtration along.

That being said Matt. You have a T1000 on a 20g and you already have your tunze so it isn't as much of a jump as it would be for most.

Covey · 10-24-2005, 10:34 AM

I also posted aesthetics as a plus for both. How? Easy not evryone likes the tanks to look them same. Are you a type A personallity or type B? A reef techy or a reef hippy? Alot of the hard core guys BB tanks I have seen are VERY clean and I don't even mean water wise. An army of snail. Glass spotless. No traces of coraline because is get scrapped off. DSB tank tend to be a little less orderly and a little more wild. I like wild it is not suppose to be a garden it is suppose to be a under water jungle but everyone got their own taste.

Birdlady · 10-24-2005, 12:01 PM

I am so proud that we here at 3 Reef can even have this discussion! I have a guy in my reef club that is, "what is your tank problem?" answered...with any number of issues, and his reply is "it is your sandbed, rip it out"!

What he fails to mention is that his DISPLAY is BB, but his remote fuges contain mud in one and a DSB in the other...Hmmmmm?!

More than one way to skin a cat, I always say!

I have about 1.5 inches of sand in my display and a remote DSB. You could set the tank up BB and contain the DSB in the sump/fuge...it's an option too.