bubbles in substrate-Sand-3reef Forums

nemo79 · 02-14-2007, 09:30 AM

I have aragonite crushed coral for a substrate and it's not deep. I wanted to know why I see bubbles trapped in the substrate? I know this is common with a dsb but a sb of crushed coral?

I have had alot of micro bubbles from the numerous water changes I have been doing to lower the nitrates but would this get trapped in the substrate? I have bubbles attached to my heater, powerheads, even on my algae?

I have also noticed a red/burgundy algae on my glass. It's not slimy, nor bubbled, it looks the same as green algae...just not green. Mind you the micro bubbles in my tank love to attach themselves to all the algae..it's aweful to look at.

Tangster · 02-14-2007, 09:49 AM

The sponge you removed should have been left in place what you did I think was the wrong move in trying to combat NO3's Rinsing that sponge weekly was fine and the F/W harmed nothing really that sponge was catching particles that now have started to settle out in your C.C substrate.. The sponge was the worst thing you could have done.
I could give less then a rats but what many have told you about removing and rinsing that sponge. First with the limited space you had dedicated to the tank and lack of a sump with a good strong skimmer running 24/7 and using a HOB filter only the NO'3s will always be little of a problem But at the levels you where having was not a real big deal. You have reached full capacity with the bio load on the 55 gallon system.

Also you need to run a good carbon again I could care less of others opinions about carbon us I have reef's I'd compare to anyones and I run carbon 24/7 and change it every 5 or 6 weeks use less and more often that way you will not strip the water to fast. Also a simple coil denitrater will solve the NO3 issue but with out a sump then you would need a HOB box type they need to be fed every so often.. Not big dead a few drops of Vodka or Gin Ever-Clear all would do as will sugar water But the Vodka works the best..

Cyano's have a food source in the C.C now from decaying food particles and they feed on the bacteria and lowed Oxygen area is great for them.. Put the sponge back in stir the sand often rinse sponge often and add more circulation across the C.C bottom and add a 1/4 cup of good carbon and change it about 4 to 5 with new carbon and force as much oxygen into the system as you possibly can .

inwall75 · 02-14-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangster

Cyano's have a food source in the C.C now from decaying food particles and they feed on the bacteria and lowed Oxygen area is great for them..

To expand on Tangster's point here. The bubbles that you see in crushed coral substrates or even DSB substrates are NOT free Nitrogen produced by the denitrification process in spite of the fact that this is what all of the hobby literature says. It is exactly what he said it is. It is Oxygen produced by cyanobacteria. This is going on around all four sides of your tank where the glass operates like fiber optics and transmits light to the cyano. You can witness this on this picture. See how the light is lighting up some of the sand but eventually falls off. Where the sand is deeper, the light penetrates less deeply. Where the sand is shallower, the light penetrates further.

CLICK PICTURE FOR LARGER VIEW

milesm4 · 02-14-2007, 10:47 AM

Wow that sucks now a cyno outbreak. Good luck keep fighting the good fight!

nemo79 · 02-14-2007, 12:13 PM

Wait a minute, these bubbles were there when the sponge was in place. So how would removing the sponge be the culprit? I am a little confused by all this. At this point I am so frustrated with this hobby that I am ready to call it quits. I have continued to use my carbon and will continue to because I really think it is beneficial. But besides that I am a little confused with all the other things stated about cyanobacteria.

Since I removed the sponge my nitrates lowered. It wasn't lowering at all with it in there.

Tangster · 02-14-2007, 12:38 PM

Its more then one thing going on in the tank.. You say there where bubbles there before the sponge removal that was just an early sign the problem was already in place and waiting for a kick start and removal of the sponge may have lowed the NO'3 right up front But by its removal its allowing more solids to pass through and settle out .
And now there is more of what was some what lacking for the Cyano issue. I understand the frustration I have been there myself. NO'3 are not the worse thing to happen to a system Its really a sign the filtration is working as its supposed to NO3s are just the last link in the total de-nitrification process .
You need good strong skimming and strong water movement. L/R is not a magic bullet they also need certain parameters to live and function properly . dd the sponge and clean the sand with a good power filter. Like a diatom and stir the sand and get all the trapped waste up into the water column and filter out solid waste.
NO'3 are being produced there in the C.C its full of denitryfing bacteria doing their job at the site of the problem. As they used to do on the sponge that sponge acted as bio balls do and since that was removed the bacteria went with the sponge until it just recolonized into the C.C Its bacteria doing its natural job. They will show up as needed and High NO'3s are the sign they are needed.

The end of the nitrafication process is what spawned the DSB and Plenum ideas. But the bare Berlin took care of the process via a very strong skimmer and lots or rock and lots of fast and strong water movement.

Other's fighting this same problem is what spanwned all of these filtration processes I like good skimming fast water and plenty of rock shallow sand in tank refugium with DSB and plants and a coil denitrator and carbon to do the job for me. Its all a trade off to one for the other.

dark126 · 02-14-2007, 01:53 PM

dear brother you can do one thing if you want do remove thise bubbel you should keep the water in your aquarum circulation moving by use two power head in difrent direction . and try do reduce the proten from your tank by skimmer or proten remove liquid if its not go by goo wated flow circulation.thanks.

nemo79 · 02-14-2007, 03:46 PM

I have alot of flow in my tank. I have a maxijet 1200 lower in the tank, 2 powerheads at the top of the tank, plus my filters flow is pretty high too. What I am concerned about is the bubbles. They aren't just in my substrate they are everywhere. The water pouring out of the filter causes alot of bubbles then so does my skimmer. I have micro bubbles everywhere and they are settling on things, everything including my snails shells. Is there a chance that the bubbles in my substrate are from all the micro bubbles in my tank? The bubbles in the substrate are much less now then when this problem started. I really don't want to use a sponge at all. Everything I have read and heard is that sponges trap nitrates and release them into the tank. I think it was my problem. I have been stiring up the cc and I have vacuumed so much stuff out that when I touch the substrate now barily nothing there. My nitrates are at 20.
Now are you saying that I am going to get cyanobacteria? What did I say that came to that conclusion?
What I am really getting confused about is that half the people out there aren't using filters with sponges...why would I. I have been skimming, never turned the skimmer off, it's been skimming little amounts since I started doing water changes and i have the skimmer cup really low...to skim more. At this point I really don't know what or whom to listen to. Some say sponge is bad, some say sponge is good. I am very limited here, it's becoming a hassle now, I am driving every other day to pick up water, plus doing water changes and my nitrates lowered only when I removed the sponge??? At this point I wish I never got into this hobby because what was supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable has caused me nothing but stress, lack of sleep. I try to do the right thing, I get screwed, I do what is said to be wrong, I get screwed. I now see why alot of people shut down there tanks because if I get cyano, this tank will be going bye bye.

amcarrig · 02-14-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nemo79

I have also noticed a red/burgundy algae on my glass. It's not slimy, nor bubbled, it looks the same as green algae...just not green. Mind you the micro bubbles in my tank love to attach themselves to all the algae..it's aweful to look at.

I'm going to guess that this description is what prompted the cyanobacteria diagnosis. Cyano is usually blue green or deep red/burgandy. It tends to grow in sheets and sometimes has bubbles trapped in it. It's not the end of the world though as it can be taken care of rather easily. I do agree about removing the sponge doing more harm than good in your situation, especially considering you were keeping it very clean and free of detritus. If you hadn't been rinsing it, it would have produced a lot of nitrates in that the food and detritus that it was trapping would have rotted which would cause your nitrates to rise. Since you were keeping the sponge clean, I don't see how it could have been the cause of your nitrates. I think that the combination of your crushed coral substrate, your fish load and your original set up (tap water (I think), not enough rock, insufficient skimming, etc.) all led up to the problems you're having now. Although I know that you've been changing a lot of your setup so that the tank runs better, it can and does take time for the water to stabilize itself. Bad things happen fast and fixing the bad things takes longer. Keep doing what you've been doing with water changes and cleaning your substrate, reduce your fish load if that's an option, use a good quality carbon and change it often, and add a nitrate coil. I think that will eventually help you get your nitrates even lower and keep them there. Problems like these can be frustrating, I know but don't lose faith!

nemo79 · 02-14-2007, 04:34 PM

Thank you for the support. I have had way too many things going on and happening and this was just another issue to add to the load and I am sooo tired. I don't know if I was as diligent at cleaning my sponge as I should have been. It had alot of stuff in it and when I turned the filter back on alot of stuff would flow into my tank, that's why I feel that it was the better choice to remove it especially since I don't think I am dedicated enough to clean it the way it should be. I have continued to do my water changes and I have seen the nitrates lower..finally 20. I think I am allergic to the salt. Now when I do water changes my skin is itchy and I get a few little bumps from it. Yippy. The micro bubbles are driving me nuts and I have no idea why my skimmer is skimming so little. It wasn't before all the water changes. I was dumping it almost every day.
The algae I have is in spots on the back wall, the largest behind the intake of my filter. It's got no bubbles in it but all the bubbles from the skimmer and filter are attaching to it and like I said everything else. The one thing I can complain about the aqua c remora is that every time your hands are in the tank, or a water change is being done...you get lots of micro bubbles, so with all the water changes the micro bubbles are just everywhere. I can see them flowing through the tank...it's not pretty at all.
How much more LR do I need? Also how much carbon should I put in a media bag at a time?
I want to clean out my skimmer but it usually takes the remora a few days to kick in and work after it's been off and I am worried that while I am working on the nitrates this would effect my tank badly.
Now I am at a loss as to ditch the sponge or add it to my set up? Should I continue stiring the substrate or will this cause problems?