Click Here!
Promote! | Advertise | View Sponsors | Top100
Welcome to 3reef.com, the friendly tropical fish forum community where reef aquarium enthusiasts from around the world come to discuss coral reef aquariums, saltwater fish, corals, inverts, protein skimmers, fish filters, aquarium lighting, refugiums, etc. Also freshwater fish information on tetras, goldfish, cichlids and more!

You are currently viewing 3reef.com as a guest which gives you limited access to view most tropical fish forum discussions, articles and photo galleries. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photo gallery and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support.
Go Back   3reef Forums > Filtration and Hardware > Refugium

» 3reef Navigation
» Aquarium Ads
aquariumrank



And here too!

Tags: ,

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2006, 11:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Flamingo Tongue
 
euthyphro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mesa AZ
Age: 29
Posts: 103
Karma: 101
euthyphro has helped out a lot around hereeuthyphro has helped out a lot around here


 
 
Default HOB Refugium, Cool or Crap?

What do you guys think about this:

eBay: PRO12 Refugium hang on aquarium algae live coral rock (item 300060069320 end time Dec-19-06 08:43:11 PST)

is it crap or is it good?


_________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Commit it to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion" -Hume

45 Gallon Bow, Oddysea 250w Halide w 2x28w actinic, Coralife skimmer... To be continued...
euthyphro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reef Links
Click Here!
Old 12-14-2006, 11:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Flamingo Tongue
 
euthyphro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mesa AZ
Age: 29
Posts: 103
Karma: 101
euthyphro has helped out a lot around hereeuthyphro has helped out a lot around here


 
 
Default

Ok, here it is. I have a 45 gallon tank. It will mostly be composed of coral. For now I am looking to spend between $50-$100 max. Considering that I am just starting out, and will most likely upgrade to a better system, what do you think i should start out with and would be easy to upgrade? A canister filter, a hob power filter that has a bio wheel and blace for carbon in the back, or should i go with a hang on refugium and some type of filter. Or should I skip all that crap and go with a sump/refugium right off the bat?
euthyphro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 12:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
Corkscrew Tentacle Anemone
 
OoNickoC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vacaville
Age: 24
Posts: 718
Karma: 105
OoNickoC has helped out a lot around hereOoNickoC has helped out a lot around here


 
 
Default

I would go with the canister, skip refugiums until your into year 2ish of reefing. the hang on back type only work when tuned in finley....and even then can be unstable. I only trust large refugiums that are in combo with a ph controller (co2 system to compenste for the huge ph swings they can cause). They are an awesome form of filtration, but fine tuning them and getting them to actually work is tricky and decieving. If you only have 100 then i would simply save up a bit longer.....otherwise youll be spending alot more in the long run regaurdless.


_________

Yes, tiny has an 11" legspan......
OoNickoC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 12:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
KingFish
 
Matt Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Pt. Richmond, Ca.
Age: 39
Posts: 7,605
Blog Entries: 3
Karma: 6216
Matt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond repute


 
 
 
 
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by euthyphro View Post
What do you guys think about this:
is it crap or is it good?
Don't know if it's crap, that's not a design I see every day. I kinda like it even if it's small. And may be crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by euthyphro View Post
Or should I skip all that crap and go with a sump/refugium right off the bat?
Lot's of crapping this evening? I LOVE SUMPS. And refugiums. Get a sump and put the refugium where ever you want. It doesn't have to be in the sump, it can be on the side of the sump or on top of it. Or it could still hang on the tank. One good thing about having a refugium outside of the sump is that you can gain more control of the flow through it and not worry about getting stuff in your sump pumps as much.


_________

Go slow, let it grow.


Support 3reef!
3reef shirts here!
Save the Reefs!
Help Me with unanwered posts!
Promote!



20 long (9/04 - 8/06) with DIY Rock, 70 Watt HQI Halide x 2 24 watt T5 actinics, Aqua Medic Turboflotor Multi Skimmer, Tunze Turbelle 7200 powerhead.

Last edited by Matt Rogers; 12-15-2006 at 12:43 AM. Reason: spelling
Matt Rogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 12:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
Fire Worm
 
Dyngoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Karma: 98
Dyngoe is moving on up!


 
Default

I second the suggestion for a canister filter. In the long run you will replace it with a refgium/sump with a good skimmer, but getting started it is the easiest and best filtration you can get. If you do your reef right it will be ~8-10 months before you will put any sensitive coral in the tank. So, you have that long to plan for your new filter. Once you get there, plan on overdoing the filtration. Build a combo that can handle 100Gal. Why? Becaus eby then you'll be hooked and looking at 100Gal tanks.
Dyngoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 04:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
Sea Dragon
 
Malachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Erie, PA,Pennsylvania
Age: 35
Posts: 512
Karma: 32
Malachi is on a roll


 
Default

I like HOB Refugium and i have one on order. its a simple way to add water and food to the tank. you can put your chemicals in it, and not the main tank. Plus you can add other filter media in it if needed.

Also a good place to put damaged corals or frags.

I myself have never used a cansister filter on my reef tank, so i have no opinion on that.

and under the tank sump/ref is the best but it will cost you more then $100.00 you have to save up for a tank, overflow, return pump, piping, light fixture (if adding a Ref). This is a good way to create out of the tank wave motion using a seaswirl or scwd (more $$). i had one set up until my sump sprung a leak and fried my ballast. Big Mess!!!

I would redo, better then the first time if i had the $$, but i got a 5 month old baby.


_________

65 Gallon, 36" SunPod 150W DE, Remora, Marron Clown, Coral Beauty, Corals
Malachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 08:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
Flamingo Tongue
 
euthyphro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mesa AZ
Age: 29
Posts: 103
Karma: 101
euthyphro has helped out a lot around hereeuthyphro has helped out a lot around here


 
 
Default

I have this book here and it says nothing about refugiums. what exactly does a refugium do as as far as breaking down nitrogen and all that stuff goes? I see that many mechanical filters have places to grow beneficial bacteria, but is the bacteria grown on "bio balls" fundamentally different then the bacteria grown in refugiums- refugiums are for growing bacteria right?

Also, if i got a canister filter now, could i add a sump and refugium later and still use my canister filter. Or would the canister filter be basically useless when a sump and refugium is present? It is my impression that one could use all three without one being redundant.

Thanks to all you guys it wont be too much longer untill ill have all my stuff and be labeld a reef head!

Last edited by euthyphro; 12-15-2006 at 08:38 AM.
euthyphro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 08:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
Sea Dragon
 
Malachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Erie, PA,Pennsylvania
Age: 35
Posts: 512
Karma: 32
Malachi is on a roll


 
Default

keys to a refugium is
1. Plants and beneficial algae’s fight bad algae for phosphate and other nutrition
2. add copods and they slowly get released into the tank for food source. Or can come form live rock.
3. A medium CRP HBO adds 3 gallons of water. Under the tank adds more depending on the size of aquarium you us.
4. Place to hide heater
5. Place to hide probes for monitors
6. Can use Mud for additional water nutrition
7. Place to add supplements, such as two part calcium
8. Place to drop charcoal in to polish water as many people on use it limitedly.

I think one problem is that using Bio Ball or Bio Wheels is they will eventually start to increase Nitrates or Nitrites. Can not remember which one. Any one else hear this?
Malachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 09:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
KingFish
 
Matt Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Pt. Richmond, Ca.
Age: 39
Posts: 7,605
Blog Entries: 3
Karma: 6216
Matt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Rogers has a reputation beyond repute


 
 
 
 
 
Default Re: refugium

It's nitrates. It's not that they make them, they just don't break them down. (Subject for another thread. ) Nice summary though Malachi.


I wrote this about refugiums a few years ago that may help:
Intro to Refugiums.
Matt Rogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2006, 09:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
Fire Worm
 
Dyngoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Karma: 98
Dyngoe is moving on up!


 
Default

Hi euthyphro,

Here's how I would describe a refugium setup:
First off, a refugium is not a stand alone filter but a part of a bigger filter process. Eventually you will want a refugium, sump and protein skimmer. This is arguably the best way to fight toxins in your system. I'm going to assume you understand the nitrate cycle of breaking amonia(fish waste) down to less toxic nitrates. Fish produce both amonia and CO2 as waste products. The amonia breaks down into nitrates which can end up being both toxic to fish and become food for algae. In a refugium you grow algae in a controlled environment outside of your tank to "eat" the nitrates and CO2. The algae in turn also adds O2 to the system through photosynthesis.
Now, the second part to this system is a sump. A sump is nothing more than a water holding tank. It is usually attached to the refugium. For example, my sump/fuge is an old 30 gal tank that I divided into three sections. One section holds my refugium, one section acts as a bubble collector for my water coming from the tank and the third section is my sump. In my sump I have a protein skimmer, my heater, my chiller intake and outlet pipes as well as my return pump. When the water leaves my tank a small amount is directed to my refugium. You usually want a slow flow throught the fuge. The majority of the water goes to the bubble remover and then directly into the sump.
I hope this helps clear it up. I found a nice site about sumps/fuges is: Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums
Now, about your cansiter filer. A canister filter is alot cheaper and easier to start with. Eventually the material in the canister filter may cause excessive nitrates to be produced, but if you clean it regularly and if you are only housing fish then it should be a great place to start. Remember when you clean it to rinse your bio media in tank water NOT tap water. Tap water contains chlorine and will kill the bacteria that break down amonia. When you finally do move to a sumo you can either remove the canister filter and sell in on Craigslist or you can use it as a place to run charcoal and phospahte removers. I have found it's a convenient place to put all those little bags of chemical removers.
Now, one final thing to throw in. BioBall wet/dry systems are a better version of the canister filter, which in turn is a better version of a HOB bio wheel filter (if you were even considering that). Wet/dry filters provide massive surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow and allow more air to contact the bacteria. The bacteria require air and get some from the water that passes through a canister filter, but will grow faster and better in a wet/dry system. Eventually a wet/dry has the same limitation as a canister filter. It only breaks amonia down to nitrates which is still toxic to fish and corals.
Final thing #2. One option you can do to get the benefit of refugium macro algae is to grow it directly in your tank. Some people actually like it. I have some growing in my nano and it does help remove nitrates from the water which helps water quality and stops other algae from using it to grow.
As I said in my previous note, you should take a few months (8-10) before you think of adding delicate coral. Not only will this give you time to get prepared for it, but itwill give your tank ample time to balance out. Within 2-3 months you could start adding zoos, xenia and shrooms which are hardy. But SPS, LPS and especially clams require very good water and light. You will want some time to learn more about this all before risking a $50 frag of anything in your tank.
Dyngoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reef Links
Click Here!
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refugium Help Bruce Refugium 16 04-23-2006 06:02 PM
Whats in your Refugium? vdhillon Refugium 11 08-12-2005 09:58 PM
Starting a new refugium sportram Refugium 3 06-20-2005 04:48 PM
Help building Refugium UMdmd Refugium 5 08-04-2004 11:50 PM
Refugium Water Flow martin Refugium 2 08-02-2004 12:33 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0,
----
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. All rights reserved.
All forum posts are the property of the posters. All else © 1996-2008, 3reef.com LLC.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74