How much light is enough?

mamachipy · 12-19-2006, 12:12 AM

I've got a 100 gal tank (60"x18"x24"deep). I'm currently running two 175 watt (10000K) MHs and four 65 watt (actinic) CPs. The guy at my lfs said it is plenty but I am having a hard time keeping SPS alive. The only things thriving are my mushrooms and polyps. I've lost an elegant, two clams, hammer, and brain. This makes me think I am under lighted. I have been debating on replacing the 175s with 250s or just keeping the 175s and adding a 250 MH. I have one SPS left but it gets covereed in algea and only opens at night, on occasion. Any suggestions would be appreciated. One more question, how do you post pics on this forum?

Dyngoe · 12-19-2006, 04:17 AM

Hi mama,

You are right, it sounds like you have enough light to consider SPS. You're at around 6W/Gal which should be enough. Obviously light doesn't get disolved like salt so you have strong and week points in your tank depending on the type of reflectors you use. If your lights are new (no more than 6 months old) and you have a good ballast and reflector then your lights probably are not your problem.

My first concern about your tank is your filtration. SPS and clams are FICKLE! If your water isn't perfect their growth will at least be stunted and they could possibly die. My personal preference is to overkill on filtration. Your HOB skimmer and canister filter are just not enough for a tank that size. Plus, with all those fish you have quite a bio load. You really need a good refugium and venturi skimmer for what you are doing. There is nothing in your tank to break down nitrates. This is highlighted by the algae growth. Even the slightest amount of nitrates will affect clams and sps. Just to give you an idea, I had to take down my refugium for a day to fix my sump. It was only 24 hrs without a skimmer and refugium and I saw imeadite changes in my SPS. Look on craiglist and see what you can sell your filter/skimmer for. Then take that cash and invest in a good overflow and skimmer. You can make a sump/fuge out of an old tank and some plastic from TAP. There'a alot of info here about it, so I won't bother repeating all that is available. It will cost you some money, but it will be worth it.

My second thought is your water flow. If you have algae growing on your SPS, then it sounds like there isn't much water flow around the pieces. SPS likes a good amount of intermittent flow. Or, a good current running just beside them.

My third thought is about placement. SPS like to be up high in the tank, near the light. I have 2-175W 10MH light on my 46 Gal tank and my SPS is ~3" under the surface. Now, don't just move them up if they are not already there. You need to acclimate them.

Fourth? MH lights and PC lights put out heat. How stable is your water temp? Mine stays within 1 degree variance all day. Along with the excessive lighting and filtration I also have a 1/4 HP chiller. But, now in the winter it rarely turns on. Most of my now cooling comes from the four fans in my canopy. causes a little evaporation, but I'm topped off with RO Kalkwasser, so it works well.

Fifth is just a summation of everything I previously stated. It can be summed up with this: Water Quality! The key to a good reef is good, stable water parameters. Make sure your SG is 1.024, your PH is 8.3, your DKh is at least 9, your Calc is 440+, and your temp varies by no more than 2 dgress (GASP) a day. You may also need to add trace minerals and iodine if you have lots of coral and don't do frequent water changes. It goes without saying I hope you are using RO water or natural sea water. If your water is good as stated before and your light are new, then it's your filtration. Even if everything looks good on paper, you really should look into a refugium for your tank.

I hope this rambling helps. Please tell us what your water is like and I'm sure someone here can help you.

bouraganes · 12-19-2006, 06:25 AM

mamachipy all my local fish stores recommend 5 to 10 watts per gallon , what you have may be sufficent but you may still have some room for improvement when it comes to some acaporas- however I am not convinced that is why those other corals died off- the elegance and some clams can be difficult to keep- but hammers are generally fairly hardy- how are your water parameters? Pics would definitely help- use the post reply button on the top left of the post you are looking at- after writing your message scroll down to the manage attachments bar and after pressing it hit one of the browse tabs - locate your picture and attach - if you have size issues on your attacment you will find a windows resizing tool here 5th from the bottom left on this page:

Microsoft PowerToys for Windows XP

mamachipy · 12-19-2006, 12:34 PM

My water perameters as of this morning.
KH- more than 200 mg/l (which is high) how do I fix this?
PH- 8.1 TO 8.3 (it does fluctuate and I need to keep adding PH booster)
Nitrate- 20 mg/l (perrty steady)
Nitrite- .1 mg/l (pretty steady)
Amonia- 0
Phosphate- .25 to .5 mg/l (I use Phos-puer to keep it down)
Calcium- 450+ mg/l (always high w/o adding anything)
Iron (non-chelated and chelated)- 0
Specific Gravity- 1.024
Temp- It does fluctuate from 75 to 78 but I did just turn one fan around yesterday (read it in a post- one 3" pusher and one 3" puller) and it stayed cool and actually cooled to 73 this morning so my heater may have crapped out!

I do a 15 gal water change every three weeks using R/O water and Reef Crystals salt and top off with the R/O as needed. I do add essential Ellements, Coral Accel, Iodine, Strontium & Molybdenum, and Coral-Vite as directed on a regular basis. The fish are feed Sea Salad green algae (daily) frozed brine, mysis, emerald entree, marin cuisine (ocassionaly), and Nutrafin pelets (all marine fish) and Marine Pellets (herbavore) twice a day from an auto feeder (ajusted low).

As for water flow i have the return from the canister and a arge powerhead at the upper left of the tank. I put an intake (lower and mid level) on the right side with a Quiet One 4000 pump. It powers the Cooler, a return on the upper right (1/2 pvc with 12 holes), a jet in the center pointing down, and the UV light at the left pointing down. The last water mover is the HOB skimmer just of center pointing down.

If an over flow is the answer how can I do that with a glass tank and not have to drill into the glass? (supper scarry stuff) Any help with this is greatly appreciated. I want to succeed with this tank and not give up on the coral.

cyberreef · 12-19-2006, 02:03 PM

Here is my 2 cents

You mention that your PH fluctuate in you tank. I believe the 3 most important things are PH, Gravity and temperature. I will get this 3 thing stable first. For PH I think you should get a PH probe.

Lighting
I have one display thank still running 175W with 10,000K. It work fine, but we just have to put the SPS all the way on top. I don't think it your light.

Finally all the coral doesn’t like dramatic changes. Anything you dose to change the water chemistry should be slow.

Hope that helps

bouraganes · 12-19-2006, 07:52 PM

Mamachipy are you running carbon in your canister filter- I recommend changing it on a regular basis- other than that I am not sure what you problem is and I defer to the reef masters- Does anyone have some sound advise here ?

Scoffer · 12-19-2006, 09:13 PM

water temp change ==bad!! me not like!!!! temp continiuity is very important!!!

Nitrate --too high for corals

Nitrite---needs to be 0!!! no exceptions!!!!!

Amm --needs to be 0!!!

maybe a Ammonia media to help lower ammonia levels quick??

Phos-puer??? google gave NO results...but PO4 levels seem low enough...

I would say Nitrate levels and temp at this point....and more water flow!!!

btw, I'm NO reef master...just posting what I see...

gL!

Scoffer

maybe more filtering and more

mamachipy · 12-20-2006, 12:47 AM

Would something like this be a good canister replacement?
eBay: refugium filter 125 gallon aquarium, protein skimmer (item 290062666682 end time Dec-22-06 05:54:20 PST)

Scoffer, PhosPure is from Drs Foster and Smith

Amonia is 0

Heater is busted, just opened up control box and the fuse was burnt. Had a water issue while on vacation and I guess it blew the fuse. I will fix that in the morning. Bad thing it that it is soldered in.

bouraganes, I do not run carbon in the canister. LFS said to leave it out, dont know why. I do have some though. How long before the media should be changed out. Not the sponge media but the substrate media. If I got ot the refugium sould I get rid of the canister or just keep it for flow? And what will reduce the nitrate besides massive water changes?

bouraganes · 12-20-2006, 07:03 AM

Mamachipy I'm with Scoffer, corals do not respond well to tempature changes and your nitrates should read 0- As far as the canister-is it putting out good water flow? I tend to change out my filter pads and carbon every 6 to 8 weeks , as far as the substrate media my lfs people tell me to run it " dirty " as this sets up biological filtration- however this doesn't mean you should never clean it- if you are not sure when you did it last it's probably time to do it! As far as the carbon it is essential and can help minimze the effects of chemical warfare between competing species-

Jason McKenzie · 12-20-2006, 08:18 AM

Mamachipy,
None of the corals you mensioned are SPS but are LPS and a clam. My personal opinion is that lighting has nothing to do with it. Many people have successfully raised hammers and brains with a lot less light. As for you elegance they are very hard coral to keep.
Looking at your pictures I'm going to say more flow is required. Just as an example and by no means is this the hard fast rule. In my 75G tank. I had 2 maxi jet 1200 on each end of the tank and my return was a MAG 9. IMO you need about 3 more power heads or a wave box or something

J