Tank Cycled Yet? Are the Diatoms causing calcium depleation?

[BayBud]

Hi there.

First off i wanted to give out a general thankyou to the members of this forums, i've been reading it for a few weeks now and have found the help brilliant.

Ok, so i started a marine tank (it's a 24gal Nano Cube with a bag of live sand "i forget how much the bag was, i think 20lbs" and 8 Kilo of live rock, i also have a Hydor Koralia 1 in there too) for the first time, i've been doing tropical for years but i wanted to try my hand at marine.

I've been testing the water daily with a Hagen Master test kit (testing Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, Phosphate, Calcium, Ph, Carbonate hardness.

On day 4 of the tank being set up i had the following readings.

Specific Gravity 1.025
PH= 8.1
Ammonia = 0 Mg/L
NitrIte = 0 Mg/L
NitrAte = >5 Mg/L
Phosphate = 0.25 Mg/L
Carbonate Hrdness (KH) = 125 Mg/L
Calcium = 440 Mg/L

Temp about 25-26 C



Since the Diatom bloom has started i have noticed a steady decrease in both KH and Calcium (KH decreasing by 10 Mg/l daily, Calcium Decreasing ny 20 Mg/L daily), do the Diatoms use this? Are they depleating these ?

So i'm totally unsure what to do now, do i now do water changes and get the Calcium level up? I have been reading time and time again that untill it's finished it's cycle don't do anything with the water.

Please any help will be most appreciated, FWIW i do understand this is a slow hobby, i have no problems with that, but i am really worried about these Calcium levels.

[omard]

To 3Reef!!!

Great thinking on SW switch! --- you are going to love it!

Not to worry about Ca levels at this point in the game. You need to get cycle started and completed before doing anything else.

Some call it the biological cycle, the nitrification process, new tank syndrome or even the start-up cycle. They all are referring to the same cycle - The Nitrogen Cycle. This very important cycle is the establishment of beneficial bacteria in the aquarium and in the filter media that will help in the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and then the conversion of nitrite to nitrates.

This process can take from 2 weeks to 2 months or longer to complete. It is vital for anyone planning on keeping an aquarium with tropical fish to understand this process. Learning about this process will help you to be successful in keeping tropical fish. The best way to monitor the nitrogen cycle is to purchase an aquarium test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph.

Test your aquarium water every other day and write down your readings. You will first see ammonia levels rising. A few weeks or so later you should see the nitrite levels rising and the ammonia levels dropping. Finally, after a few more weeks you should see the nitrate levels rising and the nitrite levels dropping. When you no longer detect ammonia or nitrites but you can detect nitrates you can assume that it is safe to add your tropical fish.

Once cycle complete, depending on what you are going to be putting in it, then you can start paying attention to Ca level.

With primarily fish and soft corals, you don't need real high levels. My tank rarely has 400 mg/l - with SPS you will need more. - but is really not an issue at this point in the game. --- you will have plenty of time to research in next few weeks.

Go slow and don't buy a bunch of additives you don't really need.
Good luck! Let us know progress. And post any questions you have here.

Scott

The Tao of Marine Aquaria
Tips for Our Hobby and Life

© 1997 Adam H. Whitlock
Edited By Elizabeth M. Lukan 11/25/00

[Jason McKenzie]

Did you add anything to the tank to get the cycle going? Like a fish or food or cocktail shrimp? If not your tank could have cycled the die off of the LR but might go through another cycle if you add a fish. This could be potentially deadly to the fish. You might want to get a small cocktail shrimp and put it in the tank to kick start the denitrification bacteria.
I do not believe the diatoms are consuming your CA it is more likely the coraline algae on the rock. Plus with your tank just coming off the cycle it will be a few weeks before the levels stabilize.

If you choose to not get a cocktail shrimp I would get some snails and maybe a couple of hermit crabs. before fish


Good Luck and WELCOME to 3REEF

J

[BayBud]

First off thankyou both for the info.

To answer your question Jason; i was told at the LFS (supposed marine specialists) that there is enough "life" on the LR for the tank to cycle.
So i was advised against putting anything else in to help this along.

One of our tank inhabitants is a little black crab, who we have all come to love!
Yesturday though i found him dead , by the look of his very white body and a few dark fragments of shell i think it was a molting attempt that went wrong.

At the moment i have left the body in there because frankly i wasn't sure if i should take it out! Perhaps this is a good source of ammonia to kick start it?

The other life forms that came with the LR are as follows

1 brittle star
1 little blue starfish
1 little urchin (sputy we call him/her)
1 hairy crab
various other small crabs
1 mantis shrimp (about 1" long, amazingly curious animal)
about 30-40 (perhaps more! feather worms)
and a few assorted gastropods, copepods etc.

As far as to what i want to keep it will probably be either corals exclusively or presuming reef friendly some types of crab ( i do understand the hairy crabs will need to go, im thinking of building a sump at some point and allow him a home there)

Fish don't really interest me (compared to the inverts) so i think my primary focus will be on these.

I figured i would prob just have to wait for the cycle to complete, as i say i have no problems waiting, i like the slow pace! lol, i just wanted to make sure what really entails in the cycle.

I have read soooo many contradictory things on this site, and im just worried that my water level will drop too much ( im assuming i can't/shouldn't add ANY water whilst it's cycling?)

I have ordered a few books on basic chemistry, inverts and the like but they seem to be taking an age to get here (i understand alot of this info will be out of date, but it will help me to find the right info online lol, at the moment much of it seems either too simple or too complicated)

Thanks again for your replies, any further info is MUCH appreciated and needed.


PS: is there anything positive Aiptasia can bring to the water quality if housed in a refugium?
I know it's early days but i have a few of them but i haven't the heart to kill them, i know that if i have them in the tank i can forget about corals so they will have to go, but if they can be useful in a refugium i would love to know.

thanks again guys

[omard]

Originally Posted by BayBud

The other life forms that came with the LR are as follows

1 brittle star
1 little blue starfish
1 little urchin (sputy we call him/her)
1 hairy crab
various other small crabs
1 mantis shrimp (about 1" long, amazingly curious animal)
about 30-40 (perhaps more! feather worms)
and a few assorted gastropods, copepods etc.


PS: is there anything positive Aiptasia can bring to the water quality if housed in a refugium?
I know it's early days but i have a few of them but i haven't the heart to kill them, i know that if i have them in the tank i can forget about corals so they will have to go, but if they can be useful in a refugium i would love to know.

Buckle up because most of that life is going to get clobbered during cycle. --- Get rid of that aptasia now! --- even in sump, they will quickly spread to main tank.

Get tough!

Aptasia

:mad:

BY Steven Pro

Aptasia Impressions


By Morgan Lidster

Inland Aquatics Guide to Controlling Aiptasia Anemones - Inland Aquatics


By Bob Fenner

Aiptasia, My Least Favorite Anemones in Captive Systems


Terry Siegel

Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Editorial: April 2007

[Tangster]

Well buddy if it where me and my tank and it's not I'd toss me a single ! only one ! yellow tailed blue damsel in there to get it totally cycled and give it a few weeks about 8 minimum and 12 weeks is what I like to do.

Then while its cycling I start getting the water parameters up and correct and steady then that will retard many problems most have with algae and no or lack of coralline growth I meant you paid for the wet rocks by the pound you might as well give it a proper environment to help it do what you paid for it to do.. You get the Calcium to 450 get the DKH to 12 and the magnesium to 1500 and in 3 weeks add your proper amount of snails and a few hermits and you will avoid many of the algae problems most have to deal with
Run only the blue actinic's while its cycling Coraline's love and need that and the pest alga's don't.

[BayBud]

lol this is what i mean, it seems the opinions on this are all so varied, most of the time diametrically opposite lol.

The damsel idea i have heard of but frankly i don't want it to be a fish tank.
I think your right about the light but im not sure the 24g nano allows me to be specific about what lights are on, im not even sure which ones are those lol.

One thing that i do need to get cleared up, do i add any water during the whole cycling period?

thanks for your help tangster and others

[Tangster]

One Damsel does not a fish tank make ! I base my opinions on many many yrs of setting more tanks of more sizes then I can begin to recall. It may not be the only way But anyone who has ever tried it never had any issues.. The Damsel I have now is seen about once a day and just a flash is all you see (:
Yes you have to maintain all water parameters Is salinity calcium, carbonates magnesium everything need to be dialed in now just like it will be 2 or 3 yrs from now.

[BayBud]

Please don't think i don't respect your experience tangster, i promice nothing is further from the truth.
Do you reccomend doing water changes during the cycle? Or should i opt for a different method of returning calcium etc to the water whilst it is in the cycle?

cheers

Edit:
You mentioned that i should have only the blue actinic lights on to facilitate coralline growth? From what i can deduce from the website this is the light source in the nano Cube, is this the light you were talking about? It has 2x 24w 7100K and 2x 36w 7100k

[Tangster]

Oh I never meant to sound like that at all .. I simply tell it as I know it from many yrs of the stuff I have tried many many ways and this method was taught to me by my Grandfather in the 50's when I was just a little guppy (:
When I see these new cycling ideas all way just sake my head and I know whats coming..
Not saying other ways don't work as they do I have used them..But more often then not there is always a issue with the tanks down the road.. As for a fish unless you have a constant in the tank unlike a dead hunk of rotting rancid meat or seafood most would get all spazzed out about if it where a dead fish in the tank it peaks and ebbs and thats how bacteria do.. Hell you can pour bo peep ammonia or take a wizz in them also to start the cycle. But I'd not do that either myself.
High demand high bacteria count low demand low bacteria count so then you are yo yoing from day one .. so much for steady parameters (: And when you change water during the cycle you are taking out bacteria that needs to get to a level and stabilize its self.. So I'd not tell you to do any water changes just let it ride until its finished cycling. Just get the elements up and stable then add snails