Help me and my nitrates!

[Mr._Bond]

Again, thanks to everyone for the great thoughts and help!! Sounds like in my case I just need to keep my filters cleaned more often and the rest should be OK. Which makes sense as they were both (the "sponge" filter in the hangover and the one on the drip tray) dirty again very dirty the sponge one was. My nitrates are sitting around 10 now which is good, just hope I can keep them that way.
As for the red, probably cyno that I've got all over my live rock - should I try and scrub all that off? Should I take the rock out of the tank to do it?

[Poppy828]

I was only suggesting what I have done. There are many theories to reef keeping. Removing the bio-balls and filter media worked for me and was less maintenance also. To each there own with this stuff I guess. What works for one does not always work for another.

As far as the cyano, I would remove the rocks if you can and clean them out of the tank so none of it breaks off and finds another place to get a hold of some rock or whatever. Or use a Magnum filter vac and scrub the rock as you vacuum it. I use a magnum to clean a small portion of my sand every couple weeks to help with nitrate removal.

Anyway, hope each of our suggestions helps you make a decision that works for you.

Todd

[Diver_1298]

Different forum for that question * Here are the links
http://www.athiel.com/lib/txtfiles/cyano3.html
http://www.3reef.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya...num=1106418420
Interesting read and good information

[JohnO]

[quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=Newbie;num=1107920739;start=15#19 date=02/12/05 at 17:24:39]Heck I never had to clean any bioballs on any of the wet drys I had... I guess it was because I used a filter pad on the drip tray? On one setup I also injected air into the middle of the balls with an airstone.[/quote]

That would be right too Matt, the problem with Bio Balls is when they become a mechanical filter and trap food and debris particles. They were never designed for this as they are really only meant as extra surface area for bacteria. So by using the filter pad you trap all the 'solids' before they get a chance to be trapped by the Bio balls.

John

[Birdlady]

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute here!

Bioballs and nitrate....

I understand that Ammonia and Nitrite are processed by Aerobic bacteria, which live on bioballs because they are heavily exposed to a water and AIR mixture.

Nitrite is finally processed into nitrate by ANAEROBIC bacteria, which needs a place deprived of such air and/or oxygen.

So the bioballs can process ammonia and nitrites, but not nitrates. *This is why rock (with deeper areas conducive to the growth of such anaerobes) and DSB's, and coiled denitrators are such good filters for lowering nitrates!

Where am *I wrong here?

While 'nitrate factory' may be a misnomer, in that they don't produce nitrates, bioballs cannot finish cycling them either, thereby leaving them in the water column.

Can this be clarified for me please?

[Matt Rogers]

[quote author=birdlady link=board=Newbie;num=1107920739;start=15#24 date=02/14/05 at 23:24:00]Where am *I wrong here?

While 'nitrate factory' may be a misnomer, in that they don't produce nitrates, bioballs cannot finish cycling them either, thereby leaving them in the water column.

Can this be clarified for me please?[/quote]

I think you hit it on the head BL. [smiley=hammer.gif]

[JohnO]

Sue,

Ammonia to Nitrite -

Nitrification is a two stage process in the oxidation of ammonia to nitrate. In the first stage, chemoautotrophic bacteria from the genera Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrosospira, Nitrosolobus and Nitrosovibrio(Herbert, 1999) utilize ammonia as an energy source and produce nitrite (NO2-) as a by-product. The process of ammonia oxidation can be shown by the following formula:

Nitrite - Nitrate

In the second stage, chemoautotrophic bacteria of the genera Nitrobacter, Nitrosococcus, Nitrospina and Nitrospira(Herbert, 1999) oxidise nitrite to nitrate (NO3-). This process also provides energy to the bacteria and is shown by the following formula:

Both of these stages require oxygen and so must be performed in the presence of free (dissolved) oxygen.

Nitrate to Nitrogen gas

Anaerobic bacteria of a number of genera, including Pseudomonas, Bacillus and Alcaligines(Hargreaves, 199 use the oxygen from nitrate and nitrite for their respiration as there is very little free oxygen available. These bacteria are generally facultative anaerobes (can live with or without free oxygen) (Hargreaves, 199 and oxidise organic carbon (e.g. glucose) as they would in the presence of free oxygen. The energetic yield from under anaerobic conditions using nitrate is almost the same as that under aerobic conditions (Hargreaves, 199. The process can be summarised as follows:


Snipped from:

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...ogencycle.html

John

[mash2k]

What got my nitrates down to virtually nothing was when I built a sump and refugium and added miracle mud and calaurpa algea. Later I stated using Chaetomorpha. I have bioballs as well and I never seem to have a ntrate problem. I am a rookie at this but I am learning from others and this has worked for me.

[JohnO]

[quote author=birdlady link=board=Newbie;num=1107920739;start=15#24 date=02/14/05 at 23:24:00]
While 'nitrate factory' may be a misnomer, in that they don't produce nitrates, bioballs cannot finish cycling them either, thereby leaving them in the water column.

Can this be clarified for me please?[/quote]

All quite correct, the Bio balls are simply a way of getting a greater surface are for the bacteria that do the Amm - Nitrite, Nitrite to Nitrate conversion. So they are useful in a tank that has a large animal population.

If the tank has not got a large animal population, has plenty of rock and a normal sand bed the bio balls aren't really necessary, but, they certainly cannot produce any more Nitrate than is available from the amount of Nitrite that is already being produced.

The only problem you could face with Bio balls in the above example is if they actually start to trap waste food etc, hence the need to use a sponge filter and/or a regular cleaning regime.

John

[JohnO]

[quote author=mash2k link=board=Newbie;num=1107920739;start=15#27 date=02/15/05 at 19:14:48]What got my nitrates down to virtually nothing was when I built a sump and refugium and added miracle mud and calaurpa algea. *Later I stated using Chaetomorpha. *I have bioballs as well and I never seem to have a ntrate problem. *I am a rookie at this but I am learning from others and this has worked for me.[/quote]

Quite right :-) Algae uses Nitrate and other things for growth, that's why growing macros in a sump/refugium is such a good idea.

John