Going from canister filter to HOB overflow

[JayKaye]

Hi all, quick question.
I have had a FOWLR setup for a couple of years now in my 110gal tank. It has been running a 1200litre/hour canister filter without too much drama for that time.

I am now considering replacing the canister filter with a HOB overflow and sump system.
Reason being I want to have a more efficient system just incase I decide to put in some coral in the future.

Some pics of my tank:

Tank1
Tank2
Tank3

I am by no means a professional with marine setups and I need plenty of help! Here are my questions:

#1. The only circulation I have in the tank atm is my canister filters pump. I had a powerhead in there before but that blew up and it hasnt been replaced. I know I know put in another one but my question is how many do I need and where is the best place to position them?

#2. I have around 25 - 30 kgs of live rock. There is heaps and I am planning on adding more later. Plus I am using crushed coral substrate. Is that enough biological filtration for the tank or do I need more if I am to get rid of my canister filter and add a sump? (I have no skimmer atm but once i get the sump in ill install one then).

#3. If I remove my canister filter is there another way of having mechnical filtration? maybe some well placed sponged in the sump? do I NEED mechanical filtration?

#4. What should I put inside the sump and how big should it be? What is the optimum flow for the syphon?

#5. Anything else you guys could add would be great, I need all the help I can get! lol!

Thanks

[Birdlady]

Welcome to 3 Reef!

While I cannot answer all your questions myself, I can get you started

General rule of thumb is about 20times turnover flow in your system. There are different ways to achieve this. You will count your overflow gallons/hour and powerhead gallons per hour. Example, if your overflow is 800 gallons per hour, and you have two powerheads each at 600 gallons per hour, then the turnover rate would be 2000 gallons per hour, or 20 times your system volume (approximately). That is generally speaking, for a softie or LPS system. If you are going for an SPS dominated tank, I think it gets bumped up to about 40 times flow.

From your pics, it looks like the gravel has buildup on it. Is it accumulated debris? or a growth such as cyanobacteria or diatoms? It indicates poor flow in your system now (which you mentioned losing a powerhead in there)

I have two tunze powerheads at about 600 gph each and they are aimed towards the front center of the tank from each back corner.
The flow hits the front glass and deflects, creating a more random flow. For a 110, I would put one at each end and one in the center, or, if you have a high powered return pump, you could split that into two or three outlets for a neater appearance.

Personally, I use no mechanical filtration at all. I do skim heavily. I occasionally run carbon as well.

Sump size, largest you can accomodate! In it, you could put your skimmer, heaters, return pumps, probes, and any other unsightly gadgets you may add to your setup. You could also add a refugium section to your sump (see the refugium section for threads relating to that)

If you add a refugium (or fuge), then that would impact the flow rate through the sump. Slower if you want one, and faster if you do not.

Hope this is enough to get you started! Please ask away!

[JayKaye]

Birdlady, youre a legend! thankyou! I would love to hear from what other people think also.
I am hoping to do plenty of research and get heaps of advice and then (hopefully by the end of this year) ill begin to get the project underway. Its a big job.

Ive asked on another board about this also and it seems that my lack of powerheads (water circulation) is a big problem, much bigger than I originaly thought! wow. Ill definately be getting a few powerheads put in soon. The stuff on the substrate is just debris and it is almost impossible to get rid of! Im afraid it may be the cause of a lot of nitrites in the future.

I would love to install a big sump but im scared it may get noisy down there. The tank is located infront of my double bed (its a bedhead) and at night I would like it to stay nice and quiet (like it is now). Is there any way of keeping the sump setup quiet?

Thanks again for all your help

[Michaelr5]

The sump itself is usually very quiet. Selection of you return pump can be helpful here. Some pumps are noisier than others. I, personally, have a via-aqua 2600 that is very quiet.

The noise typically comes (at least in my {short} experience) from 2 things. 1, the skimmer. Since the skimmer relies on frothing up the water with air, they are noisy. Again opinions vary, but I lke my SeaClone skimmer. I only have a 55 gal tank, and I am not sure if the bigger SeaClone is rated for your size tank or not. Just like the refugium, you can fine a lot of info in the SKIMMER section of the forum, and we are all happy to share our experiences.

The second major source of noise can be getting the water from the tank to the sump. Your tank does not look like it has builtin overflow or bulkhead fittings, so you are probably going to need an overflow of some sort. The fall of water into and out of the overflow and down to the sump will create noise. The DIY, and circulation forums are chock full of woes and soulutions to the noise issue. I spent about a week trying different solutions and finally ended up chaning the the air sucking whirlpool effect to a nice rush that sounds like falling rain. Actually helps me sleep now!!

[Birdlady]

Have you tried vacuuming the substrate with your water changes? All that debris is trouble. You need to get rid of it. The powerheads will help keep it suspended until it gets removed either by mechanical or skimming.

Oh, and I am not legend! There a lots more here who know lots more than me! IMHO, there are always more than one way to do things! You just need to know the ups and downs of whatever methods you choose, and understand what your husbandry requirements are with each method.

[JayKaye]

I dont have any sort of overflow but im hoping to install the one detailed by Covey on these forums ( http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made-t...low-29396.html ). I hope it doesnt end up being too noisy

I havnt tried vacuuming the substrate but I think instead I will replace the crushed coral with sand. Ill get a few bucket loads from my local beach and replace it all within the week. Big job but I think itll be worth it

Thnx again peoples

[nfarocks]

I havnt tried vacuuming the substrate but I think instead I will replace the crushed coral with sand. Ill get a few bucket loads from my local beach and replace it all within the week. Big job but I think itll be worth it

Thnx again peoples [/quote]

I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of all the substrate.....it looks like it's established(just very dirty)....i would add some live sand(after cleaning what you have)
with a sump you should have at least 90lbs of live rock(makes for good filtration aswell)Also use Carbon in the sump.
Also skim the snot out of it.
If you plan on adding corals you will need better lighting and alot better water flow.

The people on this board are awsome!!!!you will find lots of help here.
Welcome to 3reef.

Mike

[JayKaye]

Would you recommend me adding a layer of sand ontop of the crushed coral I already have?
I did a little reading about replacing CC with sand on some forums and it was recommended to put the crushed coral inside something (like nylon panthose, a few of these each around the size of a baseball) and bury it inside the new sand, this would help the sand to cure faster.
If it isnt a problem to have CC on the bottom of a layer of sand then I may just remove some of the CC and place an equal amount of sand ontop of it.

I did some research on sumps also and found this nifty pic:


I will probably make something like that but I was wondering if it is possible to somehow make (a DIY job) some sort of skimmer between the refugium and where the bioballs are (the right hand side of the sump). Maybe some sort of modification where there is limewood (?) in there creating bubbles and some sort of collection cup at the top. Is that feasible? or should I look into getting a proper skimmer?
I hesitate in spending too much being a full-time student and knowing I could just make something that does the same.

Thanks

[JohnO]

Originally Posted by JayKaye

I havnt tried vacuuming the substrate but I think instead I will replace the crushed coral with sand. Ill get a few bucket loads from my local beach and replace it all within the week. Big job but I think itll be worth it

Thnx again peoples

IMO Vaccuuming the substrate would be a good idea, even if it's only just near the surface. As for the rocks, I think I would pull them out and scrub them thoroughly, just do it really slowly and with the cannister filter cleaned and running as you will stir up a bit of debris. This wont hurt the rock BTW, just do it fairly quickly and in saltwater or course. Once it all settles down again, get a few more pieces of 'new' live rock that has some nice coraline growth. Start checking and adjusting alk and calc levels.


Cheers

John

[nfarocks]

I would just add the sand on the top.(after cleaning yours first)...it will get mixed in over time(with water flow and regular cleaning)....i would get a proper skimmer....but if your handy check this out
http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/diy8inskimmer.htm
http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/skimmer101.htm