Converting from FW to Reef

dok · 01-20-2008, 04:28 AM

Hi all,

After many years of keeping freashwater aquariums I have decided to have a go at keeping a reef tank! So, I’m looking for some advice/feedback on my plan to convert my freshwater-planted tank into a reef aquarium. I have detailed all my thoughts/plans/questions below.

Equipment

Ok, the tank in question has the following dimensions 48” x 12” x 18” (120cm x 30cm x 46cm) which equates to 170l capacity.
I have spent the last few months researching all the different set up options and have decided to go down the route of live rock and skimmer for biological filtration and running a Eheim classic 2215 cannister to handle the mechanical filtration. The aforementioned canister filter is has been running for a few years on one of my other planted tanks that has, in the past, been dosed with copper based medication. I am aware that copper is highly toxic to marine inverts, does this mean I cannot use this filter?
Assuming it is an option to use the Eheim filter how many/which additional powerheads would you recommend? For what I understand this is dependant on what type of inhabitants I plan to keep so I will add my “wish list” to the bottom of this post.
On the subject of skimmers, I plan to purchase a V2 Skim 400 from TMC and hang it on to the back of the tank. According to the manufacturers website it is suitable for tanks up to 400l. Is this a wise choice for my size of tank? Are there other make/models that you would recommend? Assuming I do go with the above skimmer how much live rock should I purchase?
Lighting will be provided by an Arcadia Luminaire 4 x 58W T5 (high output), which is currently used on this tank – I will be switching the bulbs from freshwater to marine.
Is there any additional equipment you’d recommend (UV Sterilizers, RO Unit etc)? I do not have a specific budget for this project but don’t want to buy equipment that I don’t need.

Substrate

I plan to use aragonite but I’m not sure how deep it should be – there seems to be conflicting information out there. Some sources state ½ inch to an 1 inch is sufficient others up to 4 inches! Which should I go for?

Inhabitants – Wish-List

Corals

Acropora
Cespitularia
Xenia
Bubble Coral (Plerogyra sinuosa)
Hammer Coral (Euphyllia ancora)
Montipora capricornis
Bubble tip anemone

Would the lighting detailed above be ok for the corals listed? Can you recommend others that would be suitable?

Mobile inverts – Wish list

Cleaner Shrimp
Peppermint Shrimp
How many of each species of shrimp can I have?

Hermit crabs

Fish – Wish list

1 pair Percula clowns
Orchid Dottyback
Flame Angel – Centropyge loricula
Sulphur watchman goby – Cryptocentrus cinctus
Azure damsel – Chrysiptera hemicyanea
Blue damsel – Chrysiptera cyanea
Golden wrasse – Halichoeres chrysus
Sharpfinned Flasher Wrasse – Paracheilinus angulatus
Banggai Cardinal – Pterapogon kauderni
Royal Gramma – Gramma loreto
Blackcap Basslet – Gramma melacara
Flame Hawkfish – Neocirrhites armatus

I definitely want the pair of clowns (yes, my niece is a big fan of Finding Nemo!!!) which of the above/combination of the above would be suitable?? Please note, I do intend on leaving the top of the tank uncovered so any fish that are known “jumpers” are definitely a no-no.

Thanks for reading and I would really appreciate any comments/feedback.

Dok

phoenixhieghts · 01-20-2008, 04:38 AM

Hey Dok

Not sure about the lighting for the bta, you may need stronger but im not sure. Remember to use reflectors!
May be a few too many fish for your size tank, Marine fish require much more space then trops.
Careful putting different types of damzels in a confined space, they may fight.
Again be careful with the shrimps and fish that you get - i know hawkfish are predators.
I think Flam angels need a really well established system, my lfs always says 6 months at least - but i may be wrong.

Gobies are known to jump and i think wrasses are too.

Your filter shold be fine as long as your running carbon polys etc...

Research your fish before you put them in - i know alot of fish cant stand to be with each other - i think if you do that tho you'll be alright.

Good luck mate - post some pics when your up and running.

omard · 01-20-2008, 05:09 AM

To 3Reef!!!

Salutations! Glad to see you found way here!

Fun, Fun, Fun! - Another new tank going up.

Big concern to me with your above plans, is the possiblity of residual Cu leaching in both tank and filter.

Tanks can absorb copper in sealent...filter everywhere!

Before even starting...flush both well, fill with water, run filter and check for presence of Cu every couple of days for week or so.

Don't start anything if reading the slightest amounts, which will surely be deadly to LR & all other inverts.

Actually, forget the filter all together --- why take chance - and go with a good skimmer.

Your current lighting OK for most soft corals...may not be for SPS/some anems/tridacna's...

Be patient...go slow on fish. May not be too many in long run, but will take a good while before bio-filter can keep up with so much.

Start with a couple juvenile, less agressive ones, add more over time (months) - save more agressive ones till last and get as young as you can.

Pretty verbose post...and lots more good advice to come am sure.

Have fun!

Good Luck!

Keep us posted! --- and send pics all along way of development.

Learn to Live With It

Adam Blundell M.S.

"...As surprising as it may seem your tank will look ugly at first. This happens to all new marine aquariums as they cycle through their initial filtration phase. Your tank may go brown, and then green, and then red, and then just look junky. It happens. Consequently the one coral you really want to keep may not live. You may struggle to raise the prize fish you originally intended to acquire. It's okay; just learn to love whatever is working for you. Remember, not only is this a hobby, but we are keeping living ecosystems. Special efforts should be put forth to enjoy and appreciate what we are keeping, whatever it may be. It takes time and patience to turn a glass box full of rock into a beautiful, thriving reef tank..."

The Tao of Marine Aquaria
Tips for Our Hobby and Life

© 1997 Adam H. Whitlock
Edited By Elizabeth M. Lukan 11/25/00

ReefSparky · 01-20-2008, 05:33 AM

First off, Welcome to 3Reef, Dok!! Nice to have you.

Nice plans! You've certainly thought things out. I'm going to respond to the few items that I feel I can assist you with.

First off, mechanical filtration may be unnecessary if you've got enough LR and a good skimmer. I don't have any floss or filter media of any kind in my tank.

The other item is the damsels. Times were when folks used damselfish to cycle a new tank because they were hardy enough to make it through periods of high ammonia and nitrites. Now many use a dead prawn or shrimp for ammonia source. Some kept their damsels, and many tried to get rid of them at a LFS if they could get them out of the tank. As much as I love saltwater fish, the way I "did it again" when I decided to go reef was with no damsels. They're so feisty and territorial, many community-oriented reef fish fall victim to the normal behaviors of damsels; such as nipping and full-time harrasment. You might consider cycling your tank with a prawn, and keeping your list of inhabitants devoid of damselfish.

As for the aragonite, surely you've heard of a DSB. Some prefer deep sand beds remote to the tank, so they can control factors such as detritus and limit the activity of sandsifting fish, worms and starfish. From what I've read, a DSB only works to keep nitrates down if it's relatively undisturbed; so the pockets of anaerobic bacteria necessary, don't become oxygenated. I compromised on about 3" of aragonite in my aquarium, and I traded in my tomato clown, who was notorius for his incessant excavations. I don't have any nitrate problems, but couldn't really tell you if it's attributable to the sand bed, the lack of filter floss, or water changes. When it comes time for water changes (I do once monthly, 25% changes), my parameters are all pretty much where they started.

As for water movement, I've ordered a vortech mp40, which I'll have sometime this coming week, I hope. I asked around on these forums before choosing this guy, as it's probably the most expensive pump available. It has the motor/magnetic mount on the outside of the tank, so only a 3.5" diameter 2.5" prop housing goes in the tank. It can move up to 3000 gph, but can be dialed down. After many people telling me it was a lot of money to spend on water movement, when I could have a decent wave controller with a few modded maxijets for less money; I still decided to go with the vortech. I know that I have forward compatibility with larger tanks in the future. I like the idea of having one pump, discreetly out of view, that will do more than a few powerheads (which won't be out of view).

Whatever your decisions, take it slow. Give new items a chance to show their true selves before moving on; and that goes for livestock as well as accessories.

Great luck to you!!

omard · 01-20-2008, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefSparky

First off, Welcome to 3Reef, Dok!! Nice to have you.

Nice plans! You've certainly thought things out. I'm going to respond to the few items that I feel I can assist you with.

First off, mechanical filtration may be unnecessary if you've got enough LR and a good skimmer. I don't have any floss or filter media of any kind in my tank.

The other item is the damsels. Times were when folks used damselfish to cycle a new tank because they were hardy enough to make it through periods of high ammonia and nitrites. Now many use a dead prawn or shrimp for ammonia source. Some kept their damsels, and many tried to get rid of them at a LFS if they could get them out of the tank. As much as I love saltwater fish, the way I "did it again" when I decided to go reef was with no damsels. They're so feisty and territorial, many community-oriented reef fish fall victim to the normal behaviors of damsels; such as nipping and full-time harrasment. You might consider cycling your tank with a prawn, and keeping your list of inhabitants devoid of damselfish.

As for the aragonite, surely you've heard of a DSB. Some prefer deep sand beds remote to the tank, so they can control factors such as detritus and limit the activity of sandsifting fish, worms and starfish. From what I've read, a DSB only works to keep nitrates down if it's relatively undisturbed; so the pockets of anaerobic bacteria necessary, don't become oxygenated. I compromised on about 3" of aragonite in my aquarium, and I traded in my tomato clown, who was notorius for his incessant excavations. I don't have any nitrate problems, but couldn't really tell you if it's attributable to the sand bed, the lack of filter floss, or water changes. When it comes time for water changes (I do once monthly, 25% changes), my parameters are all pretty much where they started.

As for water movement, I've ordered a vortech mp40, which I'll have sometime this coming week, I hope. I asked around on these forums before choosing this guy, as it's probably the most expensive pump available. It has the motor/magnetic mount on the outside of the tank, so only a 3.5" diameter 2.5" prop housing goes in the tank. It can move up to 3000 gph, but can be dialed down. After many people telling me it was a lot of money to spend on water movement, when I could have a decent wave controller with a few modded maxijets for less money; I still decided to go with the vortech. I know that I have forward compatibility with larger tanks in the future. I like the idea of having one pump, discreetly out of view, that will do more than a few powerheads (which won't be out of view).

Whatever your decisions, take it slow. Give new items a chance to show their true selves before moving on; and that goes for livestock as well as accessories.

Great luck to you!!

Learn to Live With It

Adam Blundell M.S.

"...As surprising as it may seem your tank will look ugly at first. This happens to all new marine aquariums as they cycle through their initial filtration phase. Your tank may go brown, and then green, and then red, and then just look junky. It happens. Consequently the one coral you really want to keep may not live. You may struggle to raise the prize fish you originally intended to acquire. It's okay; just learn to love whatever is working for you. Remember, not only is this a hobby, but we are keeping living ecosystems. Special efforts should be put forth to enjoy and appreciate what we are keeping, whatever it may be. It takes time and patience to turn a glass box full of rock into a beautiful, thriving reef tank..."

]

dok · 01-21-2008, 03:44 AM

Wow guys, thanks a million for your prompt response!
On the subject of mechanical filtration, I had planned to include this in my system to manage the phosphorous levels (if required) and to “polish” the water with carbon (if/when required) - I had planned to replace all the biological media with chemical media. However, if there is a risk of this filter leeching Cu into my system and, as a number of you have stated, it’s not required if I have enough LR and a good skimmer, I’ll leave it out. I am planning on purchasing a RO Unit and using it when topping up/carrying out water changes – does this again reduce the need for mechanical filtration?

On the subject of biological filtration, how much LR is enough, and is the model of skimmer I have proposed good enough for my tank?!?! Also, does having a DSB reduce the amount of LR/skimming required?

I am a little concerned that, as my tank is not very wide (12”), aquascaping with large amounts live rock might be extremely challenging – if I am to stack the LR high at the rear of the tank the gradient will be so steep that corals positioned towards the front of the tanks will not get sufficient light.

On the subject of inhabitants, I am picking up the vibe that damsels are a definite no-no! Great, thanks to all for this. I do want my tank to be a peaceful one! I had pulled the wish list together based on species that would not outgrow my tank and were pleasing on the eye. I aim to have a low bio-load so envisaged the pair of clowns and 2 or 3 additional fish from the list (of course I am open to recommendations of other species that people think will fit the bill). Gobies & wrasses look to be out too as they have a habit of jumping as is the hawkfish (due to it’s predatory nature). So this leaves:-

1 pair Percula clowns
Orchid Dottyback
Flame Angel – Centropyge loricula
Banggai Cardinal – Pterapogon kauderni
Royal Gramma – Gramma loreto
Blackcap Basslet – Gramma melacara

Of course, I am a long way off stocking (I do not plan to have this system up an running for another 6 months or so), so have lots of time to research/rehash this list.

Reefsparky, thanks for the recommendation of the vortech mp40 pump. It looks really good, pretty expensive mind! And it seems to be not widely available over in the UK – anyone no of a stockist in the UK?

Again guys, thank you so much for your help, it is really appreciated.

Cheers

Dok

coral reefer · 01-21-2008, 05:15 AM

I would refrain from the Orchid Dottyback! Pseudochromis' are very aggressive towards most other fish around their size especially. Your Royal and Blackcap Basslets will not be able to handle them and their boisterous disposition and territoriality, I don't think!
Best of luck to you!

baugherb · 01-21-2008, 08:03 AM

Welcome to 3Reef>>>>>>>

TankBoyME · 01-21-2008, 10:09 AM

Hey Dok,

Welcome to 3reef. I'm pretty new here to.

In a response to phoenixhieghts comment, your lighting should be just fine for a BTA. I have 4x54W T5 HO's 50/50, and my BTA has been doing great for a while now!

As for the Flame Angel wish, remember that angels are always a bit risky as some tend to pick at coral. Not very often in my experience, and my friends that have had Flame Angels never had a prob, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

aquaboy · 01-21-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TankBoyME

Hey Dok,

As for the Flame Angel wish, remember that angels are always a bit risky as some tend to pick at coral. Not very often in my experience, and my friends that have had Flame Angels never had a prob, but I just wanted to throw it out there.

Centrophyge (aka dwarf angels) are almost perfectly safe with corals. Though you may get rogue one, which is pretty unlikely......

I've kept a bta UNDER 4x65WATT PCs and it had 2 little ones split off of it and grow into new anems. But fed it every other day......

Welcome to 3reef!

P.S how about you drop the Pseudochromis and get good ole normal Chromis? Not aggressive and if you get 3 or so they become the characters of the tank when they school.