Advice Please

[JAS]

Hi Everyone!
Im new here, and currently dont have a reef setup.
For a few years i have kept fresh water fish, first started with cold water, then moved on to tropical fish which is currently what i have.
At the moment i dont have the Space or money to get started with a reef, but will o in due course time.
Im here simply to get advice and simply build up knowledge of the whole hobby before attempting it myself. And i understand this will take a long time to gt setup and running perfectly, so i want to start learning now.

First off, Could any of you exactly explain how a sump works, I know you draw water from your Main tank to the sump then goes through different phases to be cleaned / warmed. I know about using heaters, protein skimmers, a process of removing bubbles from the water, a filter ect.
But i need help more clearly in understanding the whole process.

The Overflow. I understand thats the pipe that goes from your tank into the sump. How are these made exactly ?

1. How about the sump catch basin ?
How do you build one big enough, so that if in the event of a powercut, the sump wont overflow ?

2. How do you get water from one part of the "cleaning" process to another ?
Just free flow or what ?

3. I seen you can use pumps to keep the water moving. One pulls water from the overflow down and pushes it to the next partition for one of the multiple processes the water goes through, then finally in to a return compartment where a more powerful pump pulls the water from the return compartment back to the Main tank. Surely if you pull out more water than your putting in, the return basin will eventually dry up ?

4. In the event of a powercut, how will gravity keep the water flowing ? Surly if the water has to go up someway, there wouldnt be enough "Push" to keep it flowing ?

5. Ive read somewhere about this but dont know what it is. Its kind of like a compartment where you can "Top up" the water supply for when some has evaporated ? And im not sure if this is part of this question ot not, but you are able to have something in the sump that uses the water in itself to keep the main tanks water level the same at all times, it just uses the water in the sump to keeep it the same level ? Correct me if i am wrong.

6. What is everything to have in the sump, im thinking a Pump for pulling water in, a pump for pushing it out, one or two heaters, a chemical filter, a protein skimmer, a few live rocks and live sand, some lighting of course. Is there anything else you would put in the sump, do i need powerheads or something to move water from one compartment to the next ?
What order would you PERSONALLY put all the equiptment in ?

7. How would you get the water back in main tank, of course a tube back up, but how would you "Distribute" the water in ? Would you let it just flow out of an open pipe or have some sort of attachement ?

8. I have seen a diagram or two where water goes into the sump and is all separated to do differnet things, before being pump back in the main tank, is that advisable ? My personal thought it is that it would be better to do it all as a process eg Water in --> Protein Skimmer --> Filter --> Heater --> micro bubble baffles --> pumped back out.
Am i confused ?

9. U.V Filter, are these necessary ?

Finally, thank you to everyone who very kindly assists me and helps me under stand these principles.

Many Thanks, Jas.

[dragonflylures]

Check out Melevsreef.com - Welcome! for information on sumps. It shows how to build them and how they work in motion and what happens when the power goes off. Great resource for info on them and used the plans to make my own out of acrylic.

[inwall75]

Great link Dragonflylures!!!

Here's a page on Marc's website you should look at first. Melevsreef.com - What is a Sump?

You don't pump from the main tank to the sump. If you have a hang-on overflow, the siphon and gravity take care of that for you. Many tanks have built-in overflows and you don't even need to start a siphon for those. In fact, unless you have a separate refugium, only one pump is involved....the one that returns the water to the display tank.

You never fill up your sump completely with water. If your power goes out, you need to have the extra room for the additional water that will come down before the siphon stops.

UV is not a requirement....it's optional.

For question 5, auto top-off's are usually a separate container that holds RO/DI water with a powerhead in it. A top-off switch is installed in your sump, when your sump drops below a prescribed level, it kicks on the powerhead in the container to add RO/DI water to the sump.

For question 7, most people use loc-line so they can aim the water into the main tank. Loc-Line

[coral reefer]

Hello and welcome to 3reef!!!!
Curt summed it up well!!!!! Well done!

[dlaclo]

the only other think I would add is that I would include a fuge if possible in my sump. helps keep unwanted algea out of your dispaly tank. other then that i think that Curt summed it up very well. Also keep the questions comming as that is the only way you will keep your problems to a minimum.

Greg

[JAS]

Thanks for your replys.

On the Auto Top Off system, Is it safe to just keep water in a container like what was posted in one of the links ?
Do you not need sand, rocks, lighting ect to keep things right in the water ?

Maybe someone good at maths could help on this one lol.
Say your Main tank is 60" x 24", and assume your overflow is has the drilled holes 1/2" below the surface of the water, the cubic inches of that area would be 720" cubed of water. Then your in your sump you have a catch basin, 36" x 12" and per 1/2" area, you'd have 216" cubed of water. So, if my theory is correct, the water level would rise 3.3" in the event of a power cut ? Is my calculation correct ? Of course i wouldn't leave that amount exactly in the sump.

Whats "RO/DI water " ?

If you dont need a pump to draw water in to the sump through the overflow, how would you calculate the amount of water going out the overflow to the sump? Then choosing the right return pump so that your not returning more water than you have.

Also, if you dont need a pump to draw water into the sump, can you use one ? Is there any advantage of using one, or is it better to use gravity methods ?

EDIT > I had a crazy idea last night.
I saw some photos from one of your setups, and it had 6 lights, 4 main lights, and 2 moon lights.
I had a crazy idea of having each one on a timer, so that instead of having all lights on at once, make it abit more realistic with the way the moon and sun work. For example, we would have 6 lights, 4 normal lights and 2 moon lights.
Ill start from the sun rising.
Have one normal light come on at say 6am, at 8am have a 2nd normal light come on, then at 10am have a 3rd normal light come on, then finally midday have the 4th normal light come on, then come 3pm, have one of the normal lights turn off, then at 5pm have another normal light turn off, then 7pm have a 3rd normal light turn off, then at 8pm have one of the moon lights and the last normal light run together, then 9pm turn off the final normal light, then 10pm turn on the 2nd moon light.
I know the time scales are all out and would need to be worked on, but what do you think to this idea ? Is it good ? Has anyone else ever tried or thought of anything like this ?

Thanks for all your help.
Expect more questions soon, hehe

[JAS]

Bump.

[inwall75]

Originally Posted by JAS

On the Auto Top Off system, Is it safe to just keep water in a container like what was posted in one of the links ?
Do you not need sand, rocks, lighting ect to keep things right in the water ?

Nope....in fact it's best if there's nothing but water in it.

Maybe someone good at maths could help on this one lol.
Say your Main tank is 60" x 24", and assume your overflow is has the drilled holes 1/2" below the surface of the water, the cubic inches of that area would be 720" cubed of water. Then your in your sump you have a catch basin, 36" x 12" and per 1/2" area, you'd have 216" cubed of water. So, if my theory is correct, the water level would rise 3.3" in the event of a power cut ? Is my calculation correct ? Of course i wouldn't leave that amount exactly in the sump.

Don't use math. Get it all setup with a guess on the amount of extra space you need. Then pull the plug on the return pump and you'll know exactly how much additional water drains out. Add more water to fill up the sump to within 1 inch of the top of the sump. Then plug the pump back in and see where the level drops to on the sump. Use a magic marker or a piece of electrical tape at that water level. Whenever adding water to your sump from now on, never exceed that level.

Whats "RO/DI water " ?

Reverse Osmosis/De-Ionized water. This will remove Ammonia from your tapwater, Nitrates, phosphates, and Silicates. (You don't want any of these in your tank.....causes algae problems) Use 3Reefs search engine and you'll find many threads where people show how they've set up their RO/DI systems.

If you dont need a pump to draw water in to the sump through the overflow, how would you calculate the amount of water going out the overflow to the sump? Then choosing the right return pump so that your not returning more water than you have.

Also, if you dont need a pump to draw water into the sump, can you use one ? Is there any advantage of using one, or is it better to use gravity methods ?

You definately want to use the gravity methods. If you put a pump into your main tank to fill your sump and for some reason your return pump broke, you would empty your entire tank into the sump and the floor killing your tank.

Overflows are rated for GPH Gallons Per Hour. You need to make sure your return pump does not exceed the rating of the overflow.

EDIT > I had a crazy idea last night.
I saw some photos from one of your setups, and it had 6 lights, 4 main lights, and 2 moon lights.
I had a crazy idea of having each one on a timer, so that instead of having all lights on at once, make it abit more realistic with the way the moon and sun work. For example, we would have 6 lights, 4 normal lights and 2 moon lights.
Ill start from the sun rising.
Have one normal light come on at say 6am, at 8am have a 2nd normal light come on, then at 10am have a 3rd normal light come on, then finally midday have the 4th normal light come on, then come 3pm, have one of the normal lights turn off, then at 5pm have another normal light turn off, then 7pm have a 3rd normal light turn off, then at 8pm have one of the moon lights and the last normal light run together, then 9pm turn off the final normal light, then 10pm turn on the 2nd moon light.
I know the time scales are all out and would need to be worked on, but what do you think to this idea ? Is it good ? Has anyone else ever tried or thought of anything like this ?

Lots of people have used this exact same idea and it works well. Some people even tie the hours of their moonlights to the real phases of the moon. Look for the current moonphase at the bottom of this link. www.asira.org - Coral CareÂ*
[/quote]

[RAVEN]

If you use an external overflow, they are rated on how many gph they move so you will want a pump that does not exceed that gph at a give head pressure. But you have to take into account the height of the tank from the return pump in the sump below and calculate the head pressure in feet that the pump has to pump against. Most pumps give their gph at various head pressures. For instance,
lets say you have a pump that is rated at 800gph at 1 foot of head pressure (HP) and 500gph at 4ft HP, and your display tank sits 4ft above the return pump in the sump. You could still use this pump as a return pump even though your overflow is rated at 600gph max flow because the pump will only return the water to the tank 4ft above at 500gph. You also have to take into account any 90 degree bends in the return line. Each 90 degree turn equals 1ft of head pressure.
Hope this helps some. Its not really as complicated as it sounds. Setting up a sump is really very easy.

[JAS]

Thanks for all your help so far.
I have just a couple more questions for the time being.

1) Does it hurt if the aquarium gets a bit of sun light shon on it ?

2) If you make / get made a custom sized tank, how do you calculate how many gallons / litres of water it holds ?

3) Do you need any of this other equiptment listed ?
>Air Pumps
>Calcium Reactors
>CO2 Regulators
>Chillers
>Power Heads
>Wave Makers
>Ozonizers

4) What is the better way to go, a Stand pipe or an Overflow Box and why ?

5) Im looking at getting a custom built tank, because i cannot find the size i want. But im rather worried about building a stand, How do would i know if its strong enough to hold something so heavy ?

6) Any hints / tips / instructions on building a hood ?

7) I really want to keep a couple of seahorses too, but i know they require special treatment and will not survive in your standard reef tank. Before i was thinking of somehow connecting both of the tanks together and run it all as one with 2 display tanks and 1 sump, but no im not too sure ? Any help with this issue ?

What are the better lighting to go for, theres so many, and its confusing.

9) Using a RO/DI system, do you keep that separate to make the water, or do you plumb it into your sump ?

10) What kind of filtration do you require in the sump ?

11) I've read from a few people that there setups evaporate gallons of water each day, WHAT !?

12) Im scared that the floor / floorboards are going to break with such weight on it.
Will it be alright ?

13) When using a protein skimmer, do it just remove waste products from the water or does it remove some water aswell, meaning you have to keep topping the water up ?

A huge thanks to everyone who has and does assist me with all my questions.
This is all for now.

Thanks!