would this be uneathical?

sid101 · 06-30-2009, 06:29 AM

Hey all, i have been doing scuba diving for some years now wich is the main reason i am putting my marine tank together, just can't wait between dives, i was talking to a friend who owns a scuba school about the whole aquarium set up and he told me we could go and get all my LS and LR straight from the sea.

The LR and LS would be taken from the place that is actually used by the people who collect those things as a job in here so no harm to any other parts of the sea is necesary BUT.

He told me about even going in a coral dive and i have been thinking about how "ethical" it would be to go down with some tubes and a wire cutter to get some frags, never a whole coral but just a litle frag instead, do you guys think it would be enviromentally all right?.

Iraf · 06-30-2009, 06:32 AM

check the harvesting laws where you are before getting anything some states strictly prohibit unliscensed collecting

Jason McKenzie · 06-30-2009, 06:34 AM

I would really advise that you look into collection laws in your area (not sure where you live). Most LR and corals are protected from collection

J

Daniel072 · 06-30-2009, 06:34 AM

I do think it would be unethical. There are a ton of us that are working hard to promote aquaculturing corals rather than snatching them off of our reefs. Now I'm no greenie because lets face it, this is probably one of the least green hobbies a person can partake in, but there are some things we can do to help out a little. If you want free frags, join a local reef club. someone's always giving something away.

Daniel072 · 06-30-2009, 06:35 AM

dang those two beat me to it

sid101 · 06-30-2009, 06:41 AM

No collection laws outside protected marine areas (more than half of my country both inland and sea is protected but there are areas where you can take out whatever you want) actually the reef we want to go to take the corals is a artificial reef my friends scuba school built some years ago no plans on going to wild reefs.

This has nothing to do with "free frags" . A dive is never free and when you have to rent some scuba gear and pay for the boat to take you to the diving place and other expenses generated for the diving day it actually ends up being more costly than buying a lot of medium size corals in stores.

Jason McKenzie · 06-30-2009, 06:59 AM

Where are you? Sounds like some sweet diving

J

Dr.Fragenstein · 06-30-2009, 07:44 AM

I take it you live in the Carribbean? The reefs there are so hurt already why add to the damage? Even if its one frag here one frag there.... Ok, now your buddy does it and his buddy and his buddy, soon everyone is taking "just one" frag, and it turns out to be thousands... Also, do you really want to parasites and hitchhikers that way?
I can tell you trading frags between clubs or buddies can lead to the introduction of parasites, wild caught is WAY worse.... I hate ordering wild caught pieces and only do maybe 2-3 times a year.

Not only that most Carribbean SPS no offense are no where as spectacular as the Indo or Pacific counterparts are.....

And you seriously can collect what you want without a permit? Sounds awfully shady to me? You must be in a very unpoliced third world nation then.....

If the dive session will end up costing more than a bunch of colonies then what is the point of doing it?

PharmrJohn · 06-30-2009, 08:55 AM

I agree with Frag, man. I wouldn't do it. I try to go aquacultured myself. I love this hobby of ours, but often times wrestle with the fact that some of the corals I have in my tank are ripped from the ocean. I don't like that. I would like it even less if I were the one doing the deed. It's not about money. Scuba is great. But, IMHO, it is a live and let live kind of outing when looking around.

Crimson Ghost · 06-30-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sid101

No collection laws outside protected marine areas (more than half of my country both inland and sea is protected but there are areas where you can take out whatever you want)

Man, I am huge diver and if I see someone even touching corals they get an earful from me top side – this past year in Hawaii it almost came to blows. People that touch, take and down right molest our already shrinking reef’s are scum in my book.

Now, with that being said…..If you are in your legal right than no, its not unethical – I would view it no differently than a hunter going after a deer in season. I have never come across an unprotected area in my life, please make sure your accurate in your understanding.

Further, do your frag justice and frag him in time and share with other reefers to further protect our reefs.

06-30-2009, 06:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
sid101 Astrea Snail Join Date: Apr 2009 Age: 26 Posts: 73 Skin: Mint Karma: 557	would this be uneathical? Hey all, i have been doing scuba diving for some years now wich is the main reason i am putting my marine tank together, just can't wait between dives, i was talking to a friend who owns a scuba school about the whole aquarium set up and he told me we could go and get all my LS and LR straight from the sea. The LR and LS would be taken from the place that is actually used by the people who collect those things as a job in here so no harm to any other parts of the sea is necesary BUT. He told me about even going in a coral dive and i have been thinking about how "ethical" it would be to go down with some tubes and a wire cutter to get some frags, never a whole coral but just a litle frag instead, do you guys think it would be enviromentally all right?. _________ http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

06-30-2009, 06:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
Iraf Snowflake Eel Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Tulsa, Ok Age: 30 Posts: 2,356 Skin: Classic Karma: 15008	check the harvesting laws where you are before getting anything some states strictly prohibit unliscensed collecting _________ 90g DSA - D.O.B. 11-4-08 Probably soon to have a new re-birth

06-30-2009, 06:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jason McKenzie 3reef Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC,Canada Posts: 4,885 Skin: Classic Karma: 25308	I would really advise that you look into collection laws in your area (not sure where you live). Most LR and corals are protected from collection J _________ started 8/7/02 370G 3x400W MH + 8X36W T5. 30G Refugium, Bubble king 300Ext, Profilux with 3x Doser, 2x Wavy Seas for return. OM 4-Way Closed loop. My Tank Thread Try a Search to see if your question has already been posted My Tank Blog

06-30-2009, 06:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
Daniel072 Tang Whisperer=) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,140 Skin: Mint Karma: 16723	I do think it would be unethical. There are a ton of us that are working hard to promote aquaculturing corals rather than snatching them off of our reefs. Now I'm no greenie because lets face it, this is probably one of the least green hobbies a person can partake in, but there are some things we can do to help out a little. If you want free frags, join a local reef club. someone's always giving something away. _________ 150 gallon mixed reef, 2 x 400watt mh lighting. Flow comes from a mixture of koralias and seios. Fish - Purple tang, yellow tang, leutenant tang, flame hawk, purple stripe pseudochromis, pink spot watchman goby and green mandarin. Coral - ORA Red Planet, ORA Purple Cap, ORA Stuber Stag, ORA Joe the Coral, ORA Hawkins Echinata, ORA Orange Cap, ORA Bird of Paradise, Tyree LE Sunset Montipora, Superman Danae, ORA Green Birdsnest, Several Others

06-30-2009, 06:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
sid101 Astrea Snail Join Date: Apr 2009 Age: 26 Posts: 73 Skin: Mint Karma: 557	No collection laws outside protected marine areas (more than half of my country both inland and sea is protected but there are areas where you can take out whatever you want) actually the reef we want to go to take the corals is a artificial reef my friends scuba school built some years ago no plans on going to wild reefs. This has nothing to do with "free frags" . A dive is never free and when you have to rent some scuba gear and pay for the boat to take you to the diving place and other expenses generated for the diving day it actually ends up being more costly than buying a lot of medium size corals in stores. Last edited by sid101; 06-30-2009 at 06:46 AM.

06-30-2009, 06:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
Daniel072 Tang Whisperer=) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,140 Skin: Mint Karma: 16723	dang those two beat me to it

06-30-2009, 06:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jason McKenzie 3reef Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC,Canada Posts: 4,885 Skin: Classic Karma: 25308	Where are you? Sounds like some sweet diving J

06-30-2009, 07:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 2,108 Skin: Mint Karma: 26304	I take it you live in the Carribbean? The reefs there are so hurt already why add to the damage? Even if its one frag here one frag there.... Ok, now your buddy does it and his buddy and his buddy, soon everyone is taking "just one" frag, and it turns out to be thousands... Also, do you really want to parasites and hitchhikers that way? I can tell you trading frags between clubs or buddies can lead to the introduction of parasites, wild caught is WAY worse.... I hate ordering wild caught pieces and only do maybe 2-3 times a year. Not only that most Carribbean SPS no offense are no where as spectacular as the Indo or Pacific counterparts are..... And you seriously can collect what you want without a permit? Sounds awfully shady to me? You must be in a very unpoliced third world nation then..... If the dive session will end up costing more than a bunch of colonies then what is the point of doing it? _________ Big glass tank lit by thin glass bulbs.... SUPPORT YOUR LOCALS! My Tank Thread... If you have T5 questions go here... T5 Questions ...

06-30-2009, 08:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
PharmrJohn Giant Squid Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Shelton, Washington Age: 46 Posts: 4,595 Skin: Mint Karma: 25954	I agree with Frag, man. I wouldn't do it. I try to go aquacultured myself. I love this hobby of ours, but often times wrestle with the fact that some of the corals I have in my tank are ripped from the ocean. I don't like that. I would like it even less if I were the one doing the deed. It's not about money. Scuba is great. But, IMHO, it is a live and let live kind of outing when looking around. _________ 90g HW: 20g Sump/Fuge, ETSS PSw/Mag9.5, CPR OF/Rio 2100 RTN, 3K3 1K4 PH's(4200GPH ttl flow), 300W htr, Gnd Prb, Denitrator, Tek 8x54W T5. Fish: Hippo Tang, Hmbg, Y-T, Ylw dmsls, Coral Beauty, 8 Line Wrasse. Inverts: HC, CBS, P-mnt shrmp x2, Sandstar, Sea Apple. CUC: 130 D. Crth/35 F. Crth/30 Lg Nrts/25 Vibex/4 Turbos Corals: Frgspwn x2, Kenya Tree, Doughnut Coral, GSP, Zoas x2, Shroom rocks x2, Lobo Brain, Turbinaria, Mshrm Lthr, Fngr Lthr Other: 145# LR, 1-2" LS DOB 5/7/08 [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]