Please help me fix my FOWLR setup!!!

[JayKaye]

Hi guys, ive been procrastinating from fixing my tank for soooooo long its ridiculous now. Its been almost 2 years since ive had a proper set up! Ive done my searching and I cant find the solution I need. Hope one of you guys can help.

I have a 4 x 2 x 2 FOWLR set up. Originally had just a mechanical filter running and found it hard to keep everything equalised and running smooth. So I decided to invest in changing the whole set up to a mini-reef sorta thing (with the spinning arm and bio balls etc...).
Now my problem is, because my tank doesnt have the partition in the corner with a hole in the bottom of the tank for this sort of set up I had to buy a HOB overflow box (no pump) and put together what I have now (pics below).
The tank is used as a bed head and I need it to be as quiet as possible (yes I know, that would be hard to get... but I can sleep through a bit of noise, especially if its just water noise ).

The problem I have with this set up is the pump I have in the sump tank (2400 litres/hour. Eheim pump) either pumps the water back into the tank too quickly so eventually the pump is starved of water and would burn out OR the water is syphened out of the tank into the sump too quick and I either lose my syphon on the HOB or overflow the sump (or both). Its almost impossible to get the PERFECT flow (1:1 ratio of syphon pulling water into the sump and the pump pumping it back into the tank) and even if it seems spot on for a few days, it eventually goes out of whack. To add to the issues, if it looks like I got it perfect I usually cant wait a few weeks to see if it is perfect because the syphon creates a vortex while sucking in the water and this makes a really loud and annoying sucking sound.

My question is. What do I need to do/buy/make to have a set up that is (in order of preference) 1) flawless (ie I can leave it completely alone for a couple of weeks and it wouldnt overflow or fail. Also if my power goes out my tank wont drain itself). 2) quiet and 3) not too ugly.

Pics of the current set up below. Im sick of having an empty tank Thank in advance

[JayKaye]

some more pics (max 5 pics per post)

[double2mk]

JayKaye,

there are many people here that can help.

I will reply with a few things that I have heard here.

With that size tank I suspect around 100gallons of which you will want to turn over around 5 times per hour.

Couple questions.
1.) What is the overflow Gph rated at ? ( You should be using 2 x 1" drain lines for this big tank)
2.) What is the return pump Gph rated at ?
3.) What size Is the PVC for the return and Overflow ?

With 3 - 4 feet between the sump and tank you will need an overflow and return pump that can push at least 900 GPH.

Once the two units are rated the same and can turn the tank over at least 5 times, then you can move on to noise and such.

Also, you have a lot of 90' bends in the PVC, that could slow things down.


\Good Luck

[JayKaye]

Originally Posted by double2mk

JayKaye,

there are many people here that can help.

I will reply with a few things that I have heard here.

With that size tank I suspect around 100gallons of which you will want to turn over around 5 times per hour.

Couple questions.
1.) What is the overflow Gph rated at ? ( You should be using 2 x 1" drain lines for this big tank)
2.) What is the return pump Gph rated at ?
3.) What size Is the PVC for the return and Overflow ?

With 3 - 4 feet between the sump and tank you will need an overflow and return pump that can push at least 900 GPH.

Once the two units are rated the same and can turn the tank over at least 5 times, then you can move on to noise and such.

Also, you have a lot of 90' bends in the PVC, that could slow things down.


\Good Luck

hey mate, thanks for your reply.

1) At the moment im using just 1 x 1" drain pipe from the HOB overflow and into the sump.

2) The Eheim pump is rated at 2400litre/hr which is 634GPH (thats US gallons. Where 1 litre = 0.2641 gallons. Is that correct?). The pump I got I was told was far more than I needed! I paid the extra couple of hundred so I wouldnt have to upgrade later. You say I need 900GPH pump (~3,400litres/hr!!!). The pump would be a monster! Are you sure I need such a large pump???

3) The overflow is 1" PVC with 3 90degree bends (as seen in the pics). The return is flexible hose, internal diameter less than 1" I would say.

Is there no easier way to do this? Could I not get some sorta pump at the top (for the overflow) and the one in the sump (for return) to do all the work without having to get the 2 units to rate the same? I know for a fact that I cant remove all 3 of the 90degree bends in the overflow, so even if I can get them to rate the same im sure there will be differences.

Realistically I have ~400 litres in the tank (105US gallon). So if I want to turn it over 5 times per hour wouldnt I need a pump rated at around 500GPH? Plus taking into consideration the bends in the PVC etc I guess you could push that figure up to ~600GPH to be safe (which is just under what my pump is rated at). How did you come up with the 900GPH figure?

Thanks for your help.

[double2mk]

For the overflow you should not need a pump, not sure if I have seen one with one. I think what you need is an overflow with 2 1" drains. The one you have is not sized right. Something like this dual Marineland Tidepool S.O.S Skimmer Box at Big Al's Online


You want to turn over all the water about 5 times, so yes 500 gph in your cane. Remember that a 700gph pump is that at like 1 foot, then each foot of tubing that number goes down. I went to 900 to make sure you get the the 600 based on above figures. So if you take your ehim 1260, run a 6' tube, here is what you get, 317gph
Eheim Universal "Hobby" Submersible Water Pump Information


I have read the 90' are bad for the water flow wheen you need it. Meaning, use te 90 when you want to slow the water down, like in the sump somewhere.

Hope this make sense.

[lunatik_69]

I havent been able to read the whole thread, but from the pics, your drain pipes are too small(3/4"). I would install at least 1' pipe and try to make the flow as smooth as possible. Smooth meaning least resrictions( 45 or 90elbows). Luna

[gazog]

Originally Posted by JayKaye

The problem I have with this set up is the pump I have in the sump tank (2400 litres/hour. Eheim pump) either pumps the water back into the tank too quickly so eventually the pump is starved of water and would burn out OR the water is syphened out of the tank into the sump too quick and I either lose my syphon on the HOB or overflow the sump (or both). Its almost impossible to get the PERFECT flow (1:1 ratio of syphon pulling water into the sump and the pump pumping it back into the tank) and even if it seems spot on for a few days, it eventually goes out of whack.

To add to the issues, if it looks like I got it perfect I usually cant wait a few weeks to see if it is perfect because the syphon creates a vortex while sucking in the water and this makes a really loud and annoying sucking sound.

My question is. What do I need to do/buy/make to have a set up that is (in order of preference) 1) flawless (ie I can leave it completely alone for a couple of weeks and it wouldnt overflow or fail. Also if my power goes out my tank wont drain itself). 2) quiet and 3) not too ugly.

Okay first you need to put ball valves on both the Pump and the over flow. buy doing this you can regulate the flow and accentually get it correct.

2nd - put a modified durso stand pipe on the overflow to make it quieter. Or you can use an overflow sponge which will quiet it down some.

3rd - loose the all of the 90's on the drain pipe and pump side, on the pump side every 90 you use is 1ft of head you lose. so if you have a pump that pumps 1000 gph at 10' on 90 it 900 gallons 2 is 800 and so on and so on. on the drain I am not sure how much it affects flow but I am sure it has to slow it down some. In fact I would loose the hard pipe entirely, you will get a much smoother flow using flex pipe than hard piping it. and I would move up to 1.25 piping on it plus you can adjust it and move it to fit just about any application. Use spa pipe which available at Home Depot, Lowe's or Menard's

As far as the tank draining it will only go down as far as your overflow does. Then it will stop as the overflow will loose suction. To make it so the overflow restart you need to add a pump like Toms Aqua lifter, which will restart the siphon when the power comes on. It sucks the air out of the tube to start the siphon again. I use on on my Continuous Siphon Overflow and have never had an problem, you do how ever have to keep the tubes and pump clean. Continuous Siphon Overflow

As far as turn over goes it the tank you also have to take in account any power heads you have in the tank. You don't want to have 600 gph of flow through your filter. I would add a couple of korolia or maxi jets tot he tank if you want extra flow/turnover.

[Iraf]

IMO, increase the size of the overflow pipe, basically exactly as Luna said, you want atleast 1" and as smooth as possible, no sudden turns so try and stay away from 90's

Also on the return it looks like you have alot of spare hose there, I'd cut it down to be as short as possible, when you have that much head room in the hose it causes the pump to lose alot of flow and can possibly cause issues with reliability on the pump, also put a ball valve on overflow and return so you can shut them down for maintence without tearing the entire thing apart and worrying about draining the tank

[JayKaye]

Aweomse!! Thanks guys!
Can someone please recommend me a good website to buy the equipment I need? One that posts to Australia. The aquariums down here in Sydney have NO idea about this sorta stuff and the biggest one in my area doesnt supply anything that I need. The hobby hasnt really picked up here I guess.

If I put 2 x 1" overflow pipes (or flexihose) in dont I then need the same for the return? atm I only have the 1 Eheim return pump with no plans on getting another one (im hoping I can get away with the 640GPH pump, ill shorten the hose as much as possible. To ~4'). Could I just buy a real long length of 1.5" flexihose and cut it up and use it for both overflow and return?

I will get rid of that HOB overflow and buy another one if I must. Can someone please recommend me a good one? One that will restart the syphon upon power failure (power outages are getting common here) and one that is quiet. The Durso Standpipe looks great, but can it be applied to my scenario?

Continuous Siphon Overflow
^^ That looks great! Is that the sorta thing I should be replacing my HOB with? My HOB looks pathetic beside that

Thanks guys

[liegeofinveracity]

would it be possible to put the bioballs etc above the tank? i have a small tank with everything overhead, it lets gravity do all the work! one pump runs the whole thing,only problem is i keep adding new stuff.up up and away!