Everyone should read this

[inwall75]

Stop picking on people Birdlady.

I'm not even going to get into the global warming issue because the truth is, no one really knows all of the facts. We have seen global warming in recent years but no one can prove causality. I still remember the news stories when I was a kid stating that humans were going to overpopulate the world causing worldwide starvation in 20 years. It's 30 years later and I need to lose 10~15 pounds. I'm going to concentrate on what happens when a coral bleaches so people aren't so worried.

Why have corals managed to live for so long? Answer: They have adaptation abilities.

Note to reader....this is highly simplified as I don't think most people enjoy reading the intricacies as much as I do.

Most people on reef boards understand that corals have a symbiotic relationship with zooxanthellae (which is a dinoflagellate that dropped it's flagella once inside the coral). What most people don't know is that are many different species of Symbiodinium in many different clades and that coral bleaching is a survival technique. If there is too much heat for the particular clade of zoox, a stress enzyme in the coral causes it to expell the zoox which results in bleaching.

When a coral bleaches, it doesn't spit out all of it's symbionts...just most. Once it is infected with a new species of zoox, it's survival of the fittest to see which species wins. If repeated bleaching doesn't allow the coral to survive, it says, "I'm done" performs a polyp bailout and moves in the ocean currents to find a more suitable location in the ocean and starts a new reef.

In that sense, a coral reef can die. However, it doesn't mean that all is lost. It just means that the reef is moving to a better locale. Caribbean corals have been moving North for decades and decades. They ran into some problems due to some decisions made a loooong time ago. When they drained the everglades, they removed the largest algal scrubber in North America and then land-based pollution flowed right into the ocean stopping it's northward migration due to eutrophication.

I'm going to throw an interesting comment here to provoke thought. Does a hurricane help or harm coral reefs?

[Birdlady]

LOL! You won't get any disagreement from me on those points! I have heard of other situations in which there were inventions to reduce car emission with the same result. Sadly.

The other part of that equation, however (now I am not disagreeing, but there is one other part), is consumer demand. Only in recent years have consumers demanded more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly cars. So there are now several out there for purchase. (granted, they fall far short of where they should and could be right now because of the reasons you mention). Flip side, folks don't want to (or can't afford to ) pay an additional 6 - 7 thousand extra for a hybrid car. Even I, did not get a hybrid. I bought Honda's Variable Cylinder Management technology. (when not under load, three of the six cylinders shut off) which gets me from 18 mpg tooling around town, to 25 mpg on the highway. It is still a minivan and uses gas, but all Honda's pass CA strict emissions off the line. Didn't want to pay the extra cash, sadly.

Yes, there are more people now, and many countries are finding their feet in this technological world, so overall, there are more people polluting, I agree. Our "pollution" is getting "cleaner" tho. Slowly. Here is a link to the EPA's site on the ozone...

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/indicat/index.html

which shows things have been bad, yes, and the US contributes nearly as much as the rest of the world combined (YIKES!), but that things are slowly getting better. The earth is healing. There is more work to be done, for sure!

Those were both good articles, thanks for the links. I had no idea it was that widespread. Folks are concerned over the rainforest because they can see it, not so with the coral reef, altho I am sure they may hold just as likely a cure for pain, or cancer, or other illnesses, just as in the forests. They mention a correlation with the die off of a sea urchin. I would bet some of us have just those urchins and would be more than happy to place them in a program to repopulate that species on those reefs

I am sure, like you said, Speedy, and Jason said earlier, that there a plenty of manmade reasons for these events. Run off from erosion and deforestation, sewage, like Inwall said, draining the Everglades (and likely equally as bad, what they have done to the wetlands in Louisianna) all contribute to the changing of the ocean envrionment so close to shore. Hopefully, the demand of consumers and citizens will finally be great enough to affect a change in these areas as well (and I'm sure there are lots of other areas we contribute not listed here!)

Inwall, am I really coming across as "picking on people"! I hope not! Sorry! Trying just to have a nice discussion! I am a political junkie and like to talk, so here I am!

I believe also, that Matt had linked to an article with the discovery of a new reef somewhere....I cannot find it right now, but that may add to your discussion Inwall....interesting on the polyp bailout....

going to do some more reading!!! LOL!

As to your final question, Inwall, I get the feeling it is a loaded question....I will guess, and say they are good? Why?

[inwall75]

Originally Posted by Birdlady

As to your final question, Inwall, I get the feeling it is a loaded question....I will guess, and say they are good? Why?

And you would be guessing correctly. It was a loaded question. The following is not based on my opinion. I'm just an accountant for cryin' out loud. This is from Jerel (Bomber/Spanky).

He stated that hurricanes helped move a lot of the waste from the Caribbean reefs to the abyssal plains which helped them return back to oligotrophic conditions. When asked about the pictures showing thousands of snapped off stony corals and how could that be good for a reef, he responded, "Have you ever heard of fragging?"

[inwall75]

Here's a quote from Dana Riddle (yes THE Dana Riddle) regarding storms I got from another forum just tonight:

Aloha,

I tend to think that turning off the lights will simulate a cloudy situation more than a storm. Probably no harm done.

We can't reasonably simulate a storm (this coming from someone living 150 feet away from a Hawaiian coral reef). Winter is the time for storms on this side of the island. I just recovered the pieces of my data logger instrument housing from an area sheltered from winter swells. This housing weighed almost 100 pounds before it (and its concrete anchor - epoxied to rock 4 feet above the tide line) was ripped up and deposited almost 10 feet above and far away from its original position. Rocks weighing 100's of pounds were also swept away. This lagoon had sand in it before the storm - but no more. But the corals made it through just fine (expect for those washtub sized colonies that were ripped off the bottom). Just wonder how many powerheads it would take to do that?

Dana

Pop the words "Phosphate Cycle" into google and you will see that oceanic sediments is a major portion of the cycle. It has nothing to do with reef tanks, it's just the way it works in nature. Periodically, the sandbed disappears completely, falls into the abyssal plains and then is replaced. This is one of the reasons why I respect Dr. Ron for his invertebrate knowledge but completely ignore ANYTHING he says regarding sandbeds that will last forever or sandbeds that make matter disappear into nothingness which breaks so many laws of nature and science that it is scary.

If the storms are even worse, corals can be broken but that is also a regenerative process.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm fully of the belief that reefs should be protected. I just want people to understand that corals have been around a long time and they will continue to be around a long time as long as we are halfway intelligent regarding pollution. They are extremely resourceful.

EDIT: IT ALSO WOULD BE WISE OF US TO CARE ABOUT THEM. A LOT OF SCIENTISTS ARE NOW SAYING THAT THE RECENT TSUNAMI WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS DAMAGING HAD THEY NOT DESTROYED THE REEFS THEY HAD.

Here's an interesting read. http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/ad...66-2005.36.pdf