Need help ASAP

dragonflylures · 01-09-2007, 03:33 PM

I've been fighting Ick for a couple of weeks -- some fish get better others not really to worse. I now think I have a bacterial infection -- my butterfly fish from overnight went from a couple of small white spots to bubble eyes and clouded over.
All of the other fish have started to get cloudy eyes as well --- whats the best treatment?
I have snails and a couple of shrimp and hermit crabs which I can probably set in a sump I built but not using yet (25 gallon). I need the best treatment and what to do.
Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates about 30ppm (going to do a water change)
The problem was I took out the charcoal filters and stopped protein skimming to keep the Kordon Ich attack from being cleaned out but I've gone through a whole bottle and not much has changed.
I have a 72 gallon bowfront, about 40lbs of live rock -- also an anemome. I need help before the butterfly fish dies and probably the others to follow.
Thanks in advance to whoever replies.

Dyngoe · 01-09-2007, 03:46 PM

Hi Dragon,

What are the exact symptoms? Are your fish swimming OK? Are there any open wounds on the fish like ulcers or cuts? Any changes to the skin color outside of the cloudiness? How is their breathing (shallow/quick, are the gasping for air)? Are the fins rotting? How about the gills? Any buildup around them. Any visible worms? Let's start here and I'll be glad to help diagnose the problem.

dragonflylures · 01-09-2007, 03:54 PM

The only thing is the cloudiness of the eyes and the butterfly has gotten bubble eyes -- don't know if he's blind or not. The bodies otherwise look pretty good -- the only white spots seem to be left are on the butterfly but all the other fish seem to have cloudy eyes. No cuts, wounds, they are all swimming fine and breathing seems good. I'll be checking back soon if you need more info --- just wondering if I need to run to town and what to buy if needed or seperate the inverts.

dragonflylures · 01-09-2007, 03:56 PM

The butterfly fish's eyes look like they have a white protective coating you could peel off almost (like something protecting glass). The others just have a touch of cloudiness.

Dyngoe · 01-09-2007, 04:25 PM

It sounds like a fungal or bacterial infection. Possibly popeye. This is usually a secondary symptom of an underlying bacterial or fungal infection. Since it appears to have spread to the other fish this makes sense.
Can you describe the white dots? Are they like salt crystals (ich) or more like a light dust that may resemble velvet? Or, are they ulcers? We need to discern this for treatment.

dragonflylures · 01-09-2007, 04:34 PM

Borderline some salt crystals to more of a white dust. The white specks seem small and it more blankets them than polk dots. I've started moving all my inverts into the sump I built --- would still like your advise on treatment and etc --- just gets digusting after 2 years of no problems to constant problems the last 2 and a half weeks.

milesm4 · 01-09-2007, 05:38 PM

Are you running a UV filter?

Dyngoe · 01-09-2007, 07:07 PM

Well, it's hard to discern if the white spots are Ich or Amyloodinium. If the fish aren't rubbing against the glass or rocks and they aren't swimming in water currents or near the surface, it makes me think it is probably ich. However, you have been treating it for a while and it should be gone and the "dusting" look sounds more like amyloodinium. Either way the problem on the eyes is probably popeye or another fungus. So, you need to treat the infection/parasite first and then tackle the fungus. Unfortunately you need to remove your fish from the tank. Don't worry about the inverts, they are relatively imune to most fish illnesses. But they might no fair well with the medications. I'd start by uising copper for the amyloodinium. This hsould have it clear up pretty quick. If anything remains you can use a broad spectrum antibiotic for the ich and fungus. This whole thing will take at least a week and more likely 2-3. You also need to figure out what it is in your tank that made the fish susceptible to ich in the first place. Something happened in your water that lowered their immunity. You may want to get a UV filter to help remove the parasite/fungus/bacteria from the tank before you put the fish back in.

As a final caeat, talk with your LFS. I don't want to take the blame if this doesn't work.

Good luck.

dragonflylures · 01-09-2007, 08:12 PM

Thanks for the info, I did end up going to the LFS. Copper I have come to the conclusion is out of the picture even if I lose my fish. I want to start a reef in another month or so and I've heard copper is only good for a fish only tank.
What I ended up doing was getting some more Kordon Ich Attack to finish the ick cycle as it really looks like the ich portion is gone and just to make sure. Next I also got an antibotic. I took out all the live rock and inverts and put them into the 24 gallon sump I made (it would be really cramped trying to get the fish into 3 different 6-9 gallon sections).
I put my leftover 4ft 40watt bulb on top of the sump with the 40lbs of live rock and it's actually cooler to watch now than the empty 72 gallon bowfront with sand/crushed coral and fish.

Now as far as the fish --- they all ate very well tonight (as usual) except the threadfin butterfly which may be blind. I'll have to see if he lives and the antibacterial clears his popeye looking face. Hopefully it will at least decloud the others (slight cloud on them).

I hate to have a fish die but from what I read the threadfin isn't reef safe anyways and if I get rid of my stupid damsels that will really bring my bio load down. My niger trigger may get the boot if he nips at my future reef but he's left all the shrimp alone (coral banded and cleaner) and really doesn't bother anyone.

2 years and no problem then boom Christmas. I am getting an RO/DI from airwaterice on Friday as our tap water measures at 800+ppm TDS which is probably luck I haven't had problems up until now. Is 800+ even safe to drink?!?!

As much as this is a pain in the butt (first time in 2 years) -- I've learned alot keeping saltwater and hopefully keep on learning. This is also the first time that the fish have been more work than the 5 parrots we have

Thanks for all your help on those who responded, I'll try and keep you updated on what happens.